RE: Can I put a Civic VX engine in Gen I Insight?

[ecoboy]

I am a hybrid newbie, but from what I am reading the weak points on the Honda Insight / Civc are the battery and transmission.

For me a light weight aluminum body is extremely attractive as everything rust to pieces where I live due to salt.

Would like to take the best lean burn engine / trans ie Civic VX and drop it into the insight and eliminate all the other headaches that I have read about. ie. trans going bad, battery / ima issues etc...

Thanks in advance.

[Cd]

The engine in the Insight is already a lean burn engine like the VX, but with one less cylinder.
EDIT - however, the automatic Insight does not have lean burn - which is another reason people seem to talk bad about them.
Others here have driven their cars just fine with no battery assistance at all, so that should not be an issue. As far as it being a weak point, i guess you mean a lot of old Insights have bad batteries now ? You can always refurbish the battery, or as i mentioned drive the car without one.
As far as the transmission, do you mean a manual or automatic ? The automatic is overly complex and expensive to fix when broken, but other than that, I think a lot of the bad things you hear are related to the fact that you lose so much fuel economy by using a 'autotragic' ( automatic ) transmission.
Others here have both manual and auto Insights. Let's see what they have to say.

[ecoboy]

Sound like manual insight is the way to go. Most of the ones I have seen are auto. I will keep eye out for a manual trans gen 1.

Would still like to hear from others who who a auto and man trans.

[cowmeat]

For the trouble it would take to do that swap, you'd probably do better to just travel south and find a rust-free VX for your money.

As far as the G1 Insight-specific issues, you have to remember that they're all OLD! And they have a second motor/battery system that can cost a lot to fix. If you're going to buy a 10-15 year old car, you have to expect to put some money in it.

Just like any other 15 year old car, there are going to be issues with any surviving G1 Insight, no matter how well they are maintained and how low mileage they may be. In their defense I've owned two of them and so far, so good. But I chose them pretty carefully, and passed up a bunch of others in the process of finding one with as few issues as possible.

I agree with going manual, you'll never pull the same mpg out of a CVT that you'll get right out of the box in a stick. And every single CVT I test drove while searching for my first Insight had a shudder at take-off, ugh!

[ecoboy]

cowmeat,

Glad to hear you have had good luck with your insights if you don't mind me asking how much did they run you?

I don't mind putting money into a vehicle, but my 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee has been a never ending little shop of horrors. My jeep is that plant saying "feed me". When I was a computer tech I need to haul massive loads of equiptment, and that that job is over I just want a reliable vehicle that cost as little as possible in gas and repairs.

I had a 1995 Geo Prizm and the only repairs that i needed were, starter, alternator, and a clutch. All parts that wear out on most vehicles. I could go 2 to 3 before it needed more money.

This jeep is $1000 every time I need an inspection sticker. Like it or lump it big, heavy vehicles have more joints, links, and suspension junk to brake. All that weight and poor roads here ensure a nice big repair bill every year.

I loved that Geo best car ever. Going to look at an auto version for $800 just passed inspection.

Anyone want to turn my jeep into a hybrid, or blow it up with a 10 gauage? I think I like the 2nd option better. Engine is strong and never let me down, but has a million little joints and stuff that go bad on a regular basis.

[Ecky]

I paid $3500 for mine with ~160k miles, and the only non-regular maintenance it has needed is a clutch master cylinder in the 30k I've owned it. I've seen several for under 3k since then, but I have no regrets. There have been other small things (check out my build thread) but it's all details, really. The drivetrain is bulletproof. I'm up to 190k and it still shifts smoothly aside from a known-design-flaw caused 3rd to 2nd downshift grind if you don't double-clutch, and burns no oil. I expect another 200k out of it, at least.

[jamesqf]

People have swapped larger engines into the Insight, but from what I've read it's far from a simple bolt-in.

I've had mine for 10 (12?) years now, and have had very little in the way of problems, none of which have cost me much over $100 (doing the work myself). EGR valve and O2 sensor are the only things I can recall offhand. Mechanically almost nothing, though I am going to have to do the notorious transmission input shaft bearing replacement sometime. However, that is (at least from what I read) a one-time thing, as the replacement bearing is higher quality.

With the IMA battery, there are some tricks to keeping one going, mainly pulling it out and "rebalancing" the cells every couple of years. Not at all difficult, though it takes several days. (Not working time: you spend 5 minutes swapping leads every few hours.) Mine's still working after 15 years. Maybe not as good as new, but I'm still getting ~70 mpg.

[cowmeat]

You just never know with cars. I had a 1990 Jeep Cherokee 4WD 5-spd that my wife drove for 10 years and we never had an issue with it.

I paid 3K for my first Insight Turtle (which my son now owns and re-badged "Dr. Horrible", and is right ahead of my in the mpg challenge with). That one had 200K miles, leather seats, a real nice DVD system that I turned into a rear view camera, newish Michelin Energy Savers, newer paint, replacement IMA battery, dark tint and was an all around nice car.
I paid 4,500 bucks for Ron Burgundy, which came with 111K miles, sunroof, black leather interior, shaved doors, custom paint, dark tint, newer IMA battery, Hybrid Automotive grid charger, hardwired radar detector, 4-spkr Kenwood sound system, solar 12V battery charger, and newish OEM RE92s, and is the nicest Insight I've ever seen in person.
Neither car has had a battery failure, neither has the downshift grind, or leak any fluids. Both have functioning AC, all the electronics work, etc . . . there are deals out there if you pick the car carefully and know what to look for when you go to test drive one.

If you're looking for one, here are a couple of examples in your area, one being a nice sub-100K miles example:

http://poconos.craigslist.org/cto/5234512341.html

http://burlington.craigslist.org/cto/5240098624.html

[ecoboy]

Looks like you guys don't live in the salt zone maybe that is my problem. Thing just rust and break more up here. I love to get one of the lighter older 50 mpg jobs and restore it to like new, but it would just rust to pieces in a year or two.

Neighbor bought a spotless Jeep Wrangler from down south no rust, and now after a year or two up here it is starting to rust out.

It does not help that NY state inspection is tough they check every little thing. Days of good tires, brakes, and no check engine are over.

Past 2 or 3 years has been close $1000 to get a sticker. Getting old fast.

[cowmeat]

I remember those days, that's why I moved to sunny Florida!

Good luck in your search.