Which Really Costs More: Charging an EV or Filling Up Your Tank With Gas?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

"Allegedly."

Was there a recent battery discussion? I didn't see anything in the last page. My phone told me about: https://electrek.co/2022/02/02/quant...cutive-cycles/

...and...

U Mich team develops 1,000-cycle lithium-sulfur battery using microscopic layers of recycled Kevlar to prevent dendrites.

I ran across this whole looking for a source other than my weird app:Materials with the strength of wood or bone don't sound like the best option for structural batteries, but that is an improvement? https://physicsworld.com/a/structura...s-to-the-test/

There is a search function.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ery-38881.html

I bought QS at $72.10, but when Toyota announced solid-state, it gave me the heebie-jeebies watching that fluff video again. I sold it all at $76.80, but was just happy to have my money back out of it. Current price is $16.36, reaffirming my instinct of the "good news".

[Isaac Zachary]

EV vs. Gas?

Everyone's mileage may vary.

For me, I tried a Leaf and it didn't really work out. I drive too far, insurance is already super expensive and would be even more so with a newer EV, I rent where I live and don't plan on staying in one place my whole life, and a lot of where I go is in places where the whole house might get a single 30A 120V fuse, and that's that.

I also feel that keeping a vehicle as long as possible, especially when getting over 40mpg already and its almost paid off, is going to be cheaper in the long run.

I still love EV's and would get one in a second if I could justify it.

[oil pan 4]

That article is a product of writing an article based on Google searches, getting paid by the word and not knowing anything about what you are talking about.

The person writing the article knows nothing about electric vehicles or pricing an electrical job. The difference between installing the wiring and plug for a level 2 vs level 1 charger is negligible. Old work electrical installs are mostly labor.
And news flash: not everyone needs a $1,000+ 6.6kw outdoor charging station. A simple 3.6kwh portable charger is plenty for most people.
I do almost all my charging with a 2.4kw charger.

[redpoint5]

I installed a 50amp circuit for $70 in parts, bought a Leaf EVSE for $20, and converted it to 240v for $20.

$110 for an outlet capable of 9.6 kW and an EVSE that does 2.9 k. The EVSE can add about 11 miles per hour of charging. Most could get by on that modest charge rate.

[bwilson4web]

With over 60,000 miles in our 2019 Tesla Model 3:

• $2.75 per 100 miles around town
• - - $0.00 free charging around town, ~25-33%.
• $3.00 / 100 miles with overnight stay at motel with free charging
• $3.50 / 100 miles only using SuperChargers

The first segment is typically 2-3 hours whether from home or motel. There after:

1. Stop at fast food for bathrooms and sack snack.
2. Plug-in at SuperCharger for ~20 min charge and sack snack.
3. Drive about one and a half up to two hours to next SuperCharger.

I am a qualified, Full Self Driving (FSD) beta tester. You had to drive a week, over 100 miles, with a passing safety score, 98% or higher, and no more than three strikes. After two strikes and having learned the criteria, I reset my score and got 100% the next week.

My FSD cost $6,000 in October 2019 and it wasn't until November 2021 that FSD became active. Regardless, my FSD has gone through four upgrades and brings AutoPilot to urban streets. I use FSD as much as possible for entertainment and testing.

Bob Wilson

[JSH]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

My FSD cost $6,000 in October 2019 and it wasn't until November 2021 that FSD became active. Regardless, my FSD has gone through four upgrades and brings AutoPilot to urban streets. I use FSD as much as possible for entertainment and testing.

Bob Wilson

I'm curious if you are happy with that or feel you paid for a product that hasn't been delivered.

A friend of mine paid $8,000 for FSD back in 2016 ($5K for autopilot + $3K for FSD). She paid that because she believed Musk when he said that within a year FSD would be able to drive from coast to coast fully autonomous. (She was expecting her car to drive her to work while she slept) 5 years later she is still waiting, she is thinking of replacing the car and it looks like she will never get the product she paid for. She is not happy and getting more and more unhappy every time Musk says FSD is just a year away.

[redpoint5]

Musk absolutely is to blame for selling a product he couldn't deliver. That said, consumers are to blame too. Who pays for an experimental technology up front AND believes Musks lie that technology just gets more expensive in the future, and that now is the cheapest it will ever be. There are zero technologies that were cheapest in the experimental stage and most expensive once fully mature, adopted, and replicated across the industry.

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

When I learned Tesla went from frame-pixel analysis to object classification, I knew it would take awhile to get a better product. In effect the earlier approach was suspended.

Pixel analysis does not scale well and has no ability to predict paths. In contrast, classification of objects means they follow predictable paths. The computational load of a set of objects is trivial compared to analyzing the pixels of each frame and throwing it away with the next frame.

FSD is still 'beta' which means there are reproducible errors. Happily the beta testers are pretty good about sharing the weaker parts.

Being resentful about the development delay does no good. As a beta tester, I'm impressed with the current performance, a C+ or B- grade.

Bob Wilson

[freebeard]

Being resentful about the development delay does no good.

It's amazing how fast things go from it's amazing that it works at all, to critiquing the pace.

Their efforts will really come into focus when the Dojo chip architecture matures:

Dojo, Unique Packaging and Chip Design Allow An ...
https://semianalysis.substack.com › p › tesla-dojo-unique-packaging-and-chip
Dojo is scaled up to 2 by 3 tile configs and there are two of these configurations in a server cabinet. For those counting at home, there are 12 total tiles per cabinet for a total of 108 PFlops per cabinet. Over 100,000 functional units, 400,000 custom cores, and 132GB of SRAM per server cabinet is mind blowing numbers.

The AI itself will diffuse from automobiles to atomatons.

[Isaac Zachary]

I think Tesla is on top of the game, but is still not quite what I'd want for an EV.

They have more places to quick charge, but still not enough in my area.

There isn't any place to service one for hundreds of miles from here. And their service doesn't sound great.

And although AWD would be nice, I feel it's too expensive. But I'd prefer FWD, not RWD if I got a 2WD vehicle because that would work best for me and my situation.

And although a lot of these fears could be remedied by having a second car that's an ICE, as my wife said when we had the Leaf, "What's the point in having a nice newer EV if you have to take the old, beat up ICE everywhere?"

What I need is an old beat up EV that I could drive around town but take the nicer newer ICE on the long trips. That might make the most sense. Either that or a PHEV.

EDIT:

I just looked up on Plugshare and actually the CCS and maybe even Chademo stations are more prevalent than the Tesla stations. If I had a 200 mile range EV, I could quite easily make a car work that charged from those stations. This is interesting.