Record High Gas Prices?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Thymeclock

I agree, they are wasteful. You also have the right to throw your money down the toilet if you choose.

Sure. What these people don't have is a right to my sympathy, or a right to expect me to like supporting them (whether directly through welfare, or indirectly through things like mortgage bailouts) when their wasteful ways make them go broke.

Live and let live.

But you do realize that it's supposed to be a two-way street? That the "let live" part applies to you, too? So often it gets translated to some people getting to have a party, and the rest of us having to clean up the trash afterwards.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by t vago

Indeed. It sounds like a few people here are taking pleasure at watching the economy stall.

"Watching the economy stall"? Did you sleep through the last couple of years? The economy did a lot more than stall, and gas prices had little or nothing to do with it.

Indeed, if handled correctly (not that I really expect it will be), higher gas prices might even stimulate the economy. Higher energy prices encourage efficiency, which results in net savings. Take for instance someone who drives 15K miles a year. With gas at $4, that costs $4000/year in a 15 mpg SUV. If gas prices cause a new car buyer to choose a Prius instead of an SUV, that means s/he has an extra $2500 a year or thereabouts to spend on stuff other than gas. (Not to mention that the Prius is probably cheaper to buy than the SUV.)

[roflwaffle]

The U.S. only produces one out of every four barrels of oil that it uses, so as a whole that's a net of ~$1.1 billion dollars per day moving out of the economy at current prices, which is about 2.5% of GDP.

[cfg83]

jamesqf -

Originally Posted by jamesqf

"Watching the economy stall"? Did you sleep through the last couple of years? The economy did a lot more than stall, and gas prices had little or nothing to do with it.

Indeed, if handled correctly (not that I really expect it will be), higher gas prices might even stimulate the economy. Higher energy prices encourage efficiency, which results in net savings. Take for instance someone who drives 15K miles a year. With gas at $4, that costs $4000/year in a 15 mpg SUV. If gas prices cause a new car buyer to choose a Prius instead of an SUV, that means s/he has an extra $2500 a year or thereabouts to spend on stuff other than gas. (Not to mention that the Prius is probably cheaper to buy than the SUV.)

That's why I've advocated a "penny a month" gas price increase forever. If you *knew* that the price of gas would be almost 50 cents more in four years, you would make purchasing decisions and conservation decisions in advance of that increase in price.

The idea would be to bring fuel prices in line with Europe. In that scenario the US small car market would become more important.

Question for EU-Ecomodders: Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that European countries will use the tax as a "cushion" to insulate the consumer from variations in fuel prices.

CarloSW2

[groar]

Carlos, all European countries are different.

In France the government will not lower the gas taxes. It has been done 20 years ago, cost a lot to government, but had a very limited impact on the final gas price.

Total, biggest French petroleum company has increasing profits each year. It's currently thinking about taxing petroleum companies and redistributing that as coupons for poorer people.

For annual taxes, the mileage allowance have been reevaluated so people with high miles and low annual taxes may save by declaring their real business expenses instead of using the default amount.

Denis.

[user removed]

Filled the bike up today, 5 bucks for 100 miles, 5 cents a mile. In the summer of 1968, the year I graduated from high school, it cost me 32 cents a gallon and my AH Sprite got 32 MPG, so it was 1 cent a mile.

I was making $22.79 for 40 hours work in 68 working as a soda jerk at the local amusement park. This year we grossed 79K and paid over 8k in fed taxes, even though I am retired and she has been working part time since she retired 3 years ago.

I am with Frank on this one, it's a pleasure driving and riding these days since the land yachts are mostly parked and for sale on Craigslist. Maybe this time they will actually not go back up in price, and maybe some entrepreneur with a little cash would like to build a really neat car.

If that happens it would be fantastic, but if it doesn't, then we are very well prepared to handle $250 per month in fuel costs, it certainly is not enough to go out and buy a Leaf, since they calculate it will cost at least 6 cents a mile in operating costs.

Personally I would like to see the price go up significantly higher, so instead of reacting then forgetting the fuel sucking pigs will leave permanently.

Been driving cheap here for 43 years.

Got the 1971 CB 350 inspected yesterday. My buddy passed it but told me to get new mufflers. Hmmm a $325 bike that needs two $400 mufflers. Found two Harley take offs on Craigslist and bought them for $50 for both. I couldn't believe it they were a perfect fit on the 1971 Honda, used the Honda clamps, and gasket with the Harley muffler between them, even the mounting point for the frame bracket was the same location.

Think of it, the 1971 (40 years old in April) CB 350 would do the 1/4 mile in the mid 13 second range and get 70 MPG if driven conservatively. How much better are we today compared to a bike that was an antique in Va 15 years ago.

regards
Mech

[Frank Lee]

There must be a mountain the size of Everest of Hardley muffler take-offs somewhere.

Good info though- might want new muffs for my '71 CB450 someday.

[cleanspeed1]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

Filled the bike up today, 5 bucks for 100 miles, 5 cents a mile. In the summer of 1968, the year I graduated from high school, it cost me 32 cents a gallon and my AH Sprite got 32 MPG, so it was 1 cent a mile.

I was making $22.79 for 40 hours work in 68 working as a soda jerk at the local amusement park. This year we grossed 79K and paid over 8k in fed taxes, even though I am retired and she has been working part time since she retired 3 years ago.

I am with Frank on this one, it's a pleasure driving and riding these days since the land yachts are mostly parked and for sale on Craigslist. Maybe this time they will actually not go back up in price, and maybe some entrepreneur with a little cash would like to build a really neat car.

If that happens it would be fantastic, but if it doesn't, then we are very well prepared to handle $250 per month in fuel costs, it certainly is not enough to go out and buy a Leaf, since they calculate it will cost at least 6 cents a mile in operating costs.

Personally I would like to see the price go up significantly higher, so instead of reacting then forgetting the fuel sucking pigs will leave permanently.

Been driving cheap here for 43 years.

Got the 1971 CB 350 inspected yesterday. My buddy passed it but told me to get new mufflers. Hmmm a $325 bike that needs two $400 mufflers. Found two Harley take offs on Craigslist and bought them for $50 for both. I couldn't believe it they were a perfect fit on the 1971 Honda, used the Honda clamps, and gasket with the Harley muffler between them, even the mounting point for the frame bracket was the same location.

Think of it, the 1971 (40 years old in April) CB 350 would do the 1/4 mile in the mid 13 second range and get 70 MPG if driven conservatively. How much better are we today compared to a bike that was an antique in Va 15 years ago.

regards
Mech

OM, we have not improved much since planned obsolescence ( 1957 ).

Nothing has really been made that is a monster leap forward in design.

4 valve heads? ( Since 1915-Peugeot )

Maybe EFI ( Nope. We did it first, sold it to the Germans and they got it right-1950's technology )

Big aerodynamics in a production car? ( Tatra and others beat us to the punch-1930's, I think )

The only difference between then and now is better metallurgy and reliable electronics.

Most vehicles built up to 1956, if a solid design, were lifers.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

The U.S. only produces one out of every four barrels of oil that it uses, so as a whole that's a net of ~$1.1 billion dollars per day moving out of the economy at current prices, which is about 2.5% of GDP.

And the question you have to ask is how you ensure the supply of the other three ? Or you could reduce your consumption instead, seems like a damn good national policy to me.

When your debt to revenue ratio is 358% maybe its time to ask some folks to be a little more considerate about how they use finite resources you have to buy with hard currency.



And yes, I know we (the UK) are not much better...

[t vago]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I have a fundamental disagreement with the prevailing "growth philosophy" which is, constant growth is a requirement for our system or it will all implode. This idiotic philosophy has lead to much sprawl and degradation of places and things. What is so great about it? What is so great about when our economy is humming along? Why does everyone in the small cluster****s strive to create large cluster****s? Can't they just move to congested areas if that's what they want? As far as I can tell, what we got was a bunch of McMansion building, SUV driving, keeping-up-with-the-Joneses B*** S*** and not a whole bunch more. Don't make the mistake of thinking that was the norm because that just ain't sustainable.

So you'd rather we stagnate. That nice computer you have that you used to type out your ignorance is a "cluster****." Those many vehicles in your stable that you have is another "cluster****." All of this nice technology that was developed as a result of what you incorrectly call "idiotic," that enables you to live longer than people did even 50 years ago, is another "cluster****."

Hey, here's a solution - if you don't like this society that you live in that allows you to type out your bull****, and allows you to live high enough to afford numerous vehicles, then get out of this society! Go move to a worker's paradise, like in Cuba or North Korea! They certainly don't have to worry about urban sprawl or excessive consumerism.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

He's right you know. By your glib remarks I know we'll never see eye-to-eye on much of anything which if fine because I don't want to be like you.

Feeling's mutual. I would much rather prefer not to be identified as an anti-American hypocrite who slanders American servicemembers as "mercenaries" and "baby killers." I'd much rather live in a society that grows and tackles problems as they come, rather than whimper and whine about them.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

"Watching the economy stall"? Did you sleep through the last couple of years? The economy did a lot more than stall, and gas prices had little or nothing to do with it.

But, golly gee whiz! I thought we were in a "recovery!"

You think things were bad a few years ago? You ain't seen nothin' yet! Just you wait until the other economic powers dump the dollar altogether as a result of all of the shenanigans in Washington causing gas prices (along with the price of everything else) to rise. How do you like having dollars that are worth 9% less than last year? Just wait until interest rates skyrocket, and housing prices crater. You thought it was bad before? Hah!

You two might yet get your collective wish of bring the American economy back to basics.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Indeed, if handled correctly (not that I really expect it will be), higher gas prices might even stimulate the economy. Higher energy prices encourage efficiency, which results in net savings. Take for instance someone who drives 15K miles a year. With gas at $4, that costs $4000/year in a 15 mpg SUV. If gas prices cause a new car buyer to choose a Prius instead of an SUV, that means s/he has an extra $2500 a year or thereabouts to spend on stuff other than gas. (Not to mention that the Prius is probably cheaper to buy than the SUV.)

Thank you so much for your insight, President "You might want to think about a trade-in" Obama.