Removing Ethanol from Gasoline

[Christ]

Originally Posted by AeroModder

However, a local farmer's co-op has no problem filling my car with E0. Just in case, I have gas cans that hold enough to fill my tank.

He's a corn farmer, ain't he?... Wouldn't that be funny.

[nibs]

Thank you Rmay, I agree with what you say, especially re running the fermentation process and distillation in the south.
I think that this desire to increase mileage by not using ethanol is not a progressive step. Is it loosing site of the real objective which imo is using less fossil fuel and creating less pollution?

[Christ]

The site is kind of a mixed group. Some of us are here for economy, others for ecology, and others still for wholly different reasons. We all tend to understand the global necessities, but still stick to home with personal desires being fulfilled first and foremost.

In other words, there are those of us who don't care as much about getting the best fuel economy as we do about simply not using the fuel in the first place.

Then there are those of us who, in our lives, are still bound by petroleum fuel, and intend only to get the best economy we can with what's available.

More still are only interested in the micro-economics of fuel economy, saving money by getting the best mileage possible, regardless of the ecological effects.

Then there are subsets of those, as well as other topics with their own individual following.

However, the use of ethanol does NOT allow for the use of less petroleum fuels. It increases the rate of use for fossil fuels by decreasing the fuel economy of the vehicles in which it's being used, thereby requiring that more fuel be used to go the same distance, including more frequent fuel stops, as well as indirectly causing greater petroleum fuel use by the necessity to repair parts which are destroyed by ethanol-mixed fuels. Those parts have to come from somewhere.

What about the small engines business? I've seen a surge lately of ATV's which just came out for the summer, and are already in the shop due to ethanol fuels destroying the rubber diaphragms, o-rings, and seals in said engines. You think that doesn't cost fuel? To manufacture all those new parts, take the vehicles to the repair shops, pick them up, etc.

[gone-ot]

...duh! ALL hydrocarbon fuels emit carbon-elements (carbon-monoxide, -dioxide, etc.) upon combustion, just in differing amounts

...gasoline is roughly C(8)H(16), while ethanol is C(s)H(5)OH

...you want LESS pollution, walk, because ethanol is not carbon-free!

...I envision a variable-compression (ie: turbo-charged) engine running on E100 as a viable alternative...IF & WHEN the industry gets around to offering it. But, E100 will co$t more than petroleum, so it'd better get damn good FE or it'll fail and we'll be back to sucking the petro-bottle again.

[Christ]

Ethanol is sometimes considered carbon neutral (if prepared without carbon production), because it uses carbon from the atmosphere to live while growing, as plant matter.

[gone-ot]

...putting on my Devil's Advocate hat for a moment (one size fits all):

...let's see, plants millions of years ago took-in CO2 gave off oxygen, lived, then died, and eventually turned into oil...so, the same 'mind thought' might be said for oil.



P.S.--as you might've guessed, I'm pulling your chain, because I would like to see E100 be put to "good" use; it's just the 'hidden' co$t that I'm aschewing!

[nibs]

Tele man, you are correct in saying that the carbon that was sequestered in oil deposits is now being released, but that carbon was sequestered over many many years, many more years ago, and we are releasing it at one helluva rate today.
Bio fuels release recent carbon sequestration, in a similar rate to the original capture.
Hope I am not derailing the thread, but would like to understand the logic behind trying to get the ethanol out of gasoline.

PS in the '80's I sold funnels that had a Stainless steel mesh fine enough that it would allow gasoline to pass but not water. I still have one which I never use and no longer know the source or if it is still in business.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...putting on my Devil's Advocate hat for a moment (one size fits all):

...let's see, plants millions of years ago took-in CO2 gave off oxygen, lived, then died, and eventually turned into oil...so, the same 'mind thought' might be said for oil.



P.S.--as you might've guessed, I'm pulling your chain, because I would like to see E100 be put to "good" use; it's just the 'hidden' co$t that I'm aschewing!

That mindset IS used for oil. The problem lies in that we're producing the carbon faster than the planet can re-absorb it. We're (supposed to be) in line for bringing the planet back around to the times before the plant matter created that oil, back when they were still using the carbon to create oxygen.

Remember how I keep saying that all things in life work toward equilibrium?

[Christ]

Originally Posted by nibs

Tele man, you are correct in saying that the carbon that was sequestered in oil deposits is now being released, but that carbon was sequestered over many many years, many more years ago, and we are releasing it at one helluva rate today.
Bio fuels release recent carbon sequestration, in a similar rate to the original capture.
Hope I am not derailing the thread, but would like to understand the logic behind trying to get the ethanol out of gasoline.

PS in the '80's I sold funnels that had a Stainless steel mesh fine enough that it would allow gasoline to pass but not water. I still have one which I never use and no longer know the source or if it is still in business.

I just let it separate, usually. I do have a funnel like that, though.

[gone-ot]

...by the numbers:

1) in a gasoline & ethanol mixture, ethanol displaces gasoline.

2) gasoline has higher energy content (~114,000 BTU/gal) than ethanol (~76,000 BTU/gal).

3) fuel efficiency "works" on energy.

4) any addition of ethanol to gasoline DECREASES the total energy content of their mixture.

5) removing ethanol from E10, produces (approximately) 100% gasoline, so the energy content is BACK up to the level it was before the ethanol was added.

6) it's all about the ENERGY content (of the gasoline, not the ethanol).


Christ--we just need MORE water to absorb that extra CO2 (as carbonates) as the earth has done for eons...and Global Warming is "helping" us get that water (ha,ha).