Removing Ethanol from Gasoline

[gone-ot]

...look up "galvanic reaction" with dissimilar metals and what the result is; hint (pitting, corrosion, metal transfer, etc.)...and a conductive medium (ethanol) is the catalyst.

...gasoline is basically neutral, but ethanol is not, it's conductive.

...also, just for giggles, also look-up "electro-plating" and what the mechanisms needed for it to occur are.

[Christ]

I noticed that you were talking about galvanic current transfer after typing all that, but it was still relevant, so I left it there.

galvanic corrosion is a PITA... but it only occurs between dissimilar metals, and there is a limit to the distance at which it can occur, right?

[Nerys]

I called aqua water first and asked them if it was ok to pour water alcohol mixes down the drain. They said yes no problem won't harm anything unless I was pouring down industrial quantities (fire hazard then). So I pour it right down the drain. I will be pouring down a max of 2-3 gallons total over a period of weeks.

If they told me no my next plan was to take it to a local gas station he already told me I could dump it into his "waste tank" which is exactly what it is their for.

You may not think it is worth your time. Ever change a fuel pump? No? they you have no idea how much my time is worth. Changing tank pumps SUCKS and sucks BIG and those fraking things are expensive even if you do it yourself.

Now in all likelyhood I should not lose any more pumps. I have ZERO doubt IE I am 100% certain that the ethanol killed my fuel pumps. But any pump I buy to replace them with SHOULD be ethanol safe (I hope) Especially the Clubwagon damned pump was fraking $140 !!! (just the pump)

my god if I did not have the means to do these pumps myself...... The cost would have EXCEEDED THE VALUE of some of my cars!

after all that then let us look into the MONEY ethanol is costing me. I now burn 572 MORE gallons of gasoline every year. (I burn $4000 a year in gasoline)

Thats $1504 per year EXTRA in gasoline because of ethanol. SO you think a few weekends testing tinkering (which btw is FUN for me so its not even work) is worth $1504 every year?

[Nerys]

OK the experiment begins. I decided to start off a little slower :-) I was going to run it empty and fill it up but I am really worried about the unknown amount of water it might hold in solution and the other chemicals I likely removed/disturbed in the fuel.

SO my current tank was 425miles on 8.9 gallons so still holding around my 50mpg mark (last two days was lots of rain and heavy heavy winds which is why I only got 49.3mpg most likely)

SO what is in my gas tank right now?

2 gallons of left over 87 octane E10
7 gallons of E0 at an estimated 84 octane
1.6 gallons of 92 Premium E10 from wawa.

more than enough E0 that I should see a pretty big jump in FE if my assumptions are correct but hopefully enough regular gas and premium to keep the chemical mix happy and the octane within range of not pissing off the mouse :-)

We shall see in 3 or 4 days. or if I really see a big improvement 5 or 6 days :-)

Driving style should not be a factor since I am pretty darned "maxed out" limiting myself to 45mph as much as possible etc.. etc..

so if anything changes in driving style will hurt my results not help them plus IF I see the giant gain I am expecting to see driving style would not be able to explain the difference.

OR I might see no change at all. Thats why I am doing it. To find out :-)

[al_capwn]

isn't a 55mph vehicle more efficient than a 45mph vehicle?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by al_capwn

isn't a 55mph vehicle more efficient than a 45mph vehicle?

From a drag standpoint no, the slower you go the less drag exponentially.

Where you might see a gain is the fact that some Gasoline vehicles have their gearing sweet spot at 55mph, my Dodge gets the best fe right around 40mph, my buick around 45mph, My subaru 360 right at 50mph so it really depends.

Cheers

[Christ]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

From a drag standpoint no, the slower you go the less drag exponentially.

Where you might see a gain is the fact that some Gasoline vehicles have their gearing sweet spot at 55mph, my Dodge gets the best fe right around 40mph, my buick around 45mph, My subaru 360 right at 50mph so it really depends.

Cheers

I won't know this about Gerald until I get my Guino hooked up and mounted, but I suspect that I'm actually very close between 60-65, which is just above my torque peak, @ 2k.

[Nerys]

I thought so too but I realized I was always "wanting" to shift at 50mph as if the car really needed a 6th gear IE the engine was racing faster than I would have liked so instinctively I tried to shift (thank got for that reverse lock out !!)

so one time I said what the heck lets see what happens if I slow down to where the engine "sounded" proper for that gear. I was pleasantly surprised by a 5+mpg boost!

I like to keep my rpm's around 1600-1800 but always under 2000 if I can help it.

I have over 75 miles on the new gasoline.

NOW I fully 100% admit I have nothing to back this. Its just a gut feeling and it almost certaintly is in my head.

The car "FEELS" better. the engine sounds better. Less vibrations smoother. Less shakes at idle. The engine shakes less (I looked) and the stick vibrates less and I swear its quieter.

so far the FE is identical or better than before I am definitely NOT burning gas faster for sure. My gut says I am going better but I won't know with any sort of certaintly till I hit 200 miles (which will be on friday)

so far the "needle" is lagging behind where it usually it at this point but that could be anything (ie it should be further down and its not which is a positive sign)

and this includes being stuck in bumper to bumper sub 10mph traffic for 30 minutes (I accidentally went the wrong way on the turnpike and discovered exist 326 SUCKS big time :-) took forever to make it back around to get back on the turnpike.

I tried to drive like I normally drive. I intentionally NEVER turned the engine off for FAS or EOC etc.. ie Just drove it like a normal person being my usual slow careful self to save gas.

IF I see positive results the next step is a $200 expense so I want to make certain its worth going to that next step or not :-)

[Nerys]

So far its liking the gas just fine. Someone I talked with today suggested that my fear over the presence of water in my washed gas might explain it running smoothly now. He said they used to use water injection to boost equivalent octane or something like that something about compensating for lower octane in higher performance engines. Smoothing out the flame front or something.

he said this might be why its "ok" on the lower octane fuel. thankfully it is definatly not hurting my FE

I am at over 300 miles on just over 1/2 the fuel gauge used so around 4.5 to 5 gallons of gas used so far at a "guess"

IF that guess is accurate I am tracking for 60mpg+ tank which would seem to confirm my issue with ethanol. I will hold the huray till I fill up. I have 5 more gallons of gas washed 3 more in process and another 3 gallons I will start tommorrow. By tomorrow night sunday I will need a fill up so its just in time :-)

this time I will maybe drive further to say 500 miles (if its looking good) before filling up so I can get more ethanol free gas in the mix tan 7 gallons.

I should definately be able to get 8 gallons in and then "top up" at wawa on premium.

I do this for 2 reasons. it solves my problem of how the heck do I determine how many gallons I put in? whole gallons are easy its that last partial gallon thats a bugger.

second how do I know "how much" i have filled up. well thats solved too. I fill to first click then to next dollar every time and the needle is always in roughly the same spot. (if I top it up the needle is in a very different position)

if the FE is truly up then its time to plan a trip to allentown for some E0 real gas so I can remove anything I am "doing" to the gas out of the equation.

I already have 5 5gallon gas cans so I would need say 3 more for 40 gallons of E0 (plus I will fill the car when I get their)

figuring 8 gallon fill ups on average thats enough roughly 5 fill ups.

enough for me to go 3 tanks on E0 2 tanks on E10 2 tanks on E0 2 tanks on E10

that should be a pretty conclusive aba testing I would think.

none except 3 of 1 will be pure (E0) or close to it but it should be "enough" to show a significant change in FE if there is any.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Nerys

So far its liking the gas just fine. Someone I talked with today suggested that my fear over the presence of water in my washed gas might explain it running smoothly now. He said they used to use water injection to boost equivalent octane or something like that something about compensating for lower octane in higher performance engines. Smoothing out the flame front or something.

Take care the water you use does not have chlorine in it also remember water in your gas is very different than water injection.

Pitting and corrosion issues abound in water laden fuel as old telephone suggests.

Even though water and gas don't really mix there will be some emulsion because gasoline contains many other compounds other than gasoline, some of which will react to water. The issues (if they occur) will be long term and won't be noticed for a while.

Cheers
Ryan