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Old 11-27-2013, 10:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Setting up an Eco-run /MPG event?

Looking for ideas on how to organize a Eco-run/ MPG Rally

Questions(detailed with notes, comments, and research below):
  • What time of the year is best?

    Location?

    Aim for a month with an average temp target of 72?

    Thoughts on using a holiday weekend?

    How long should the event be in miles?

    How long should the event last?

    How to ensure the fill up/ gas usage?

    City/ Rural/ highway mix?

    What should the prize be?

    How to Rank?

    Registration Fee?

    Participant feebies?

    Best ways to get the word out?

    What should the categories of vehicles be?

    What rules should be used for modifications?

    Use as a charity event?

    Warm Start or Cold Start?

    Is it best to have a sanctioning body (if so, who), or go it alone?

    Grouping, Should the cars be allowed to:

    Use of chase cars?

    Reporting Format?

    Elevation reporting?

    Legal concerns?

    CYA info?

    Should there be a amateur classification?

    Should we have a new car class, and invite local dealers to compete?

    Minimum Speed rules?

    Distance Calculation?

    Have Fun?

    Appeal to spouses?

    Help?

    Other?

    I've been looking at a few other runs for ideas (shell mainly), but would like to get all feedback possible.

    A repeatable formula would be best, so that they can be carried out world wide (best practices).

    I would like the formula to be such that I could compete as well without being overly burdened by the management of the run.

    Links to other race rules.

What time of the year is best?
  • For mpg results
  • For turn out?
    Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    For best results, the colder seasons where it's not so hot that A/C is required (not that any serious competitor would use it!)

    The GGP is run too early in the year for my liking. Cool & not enough prep time/weather to get "this year's" new mods ready.

    I don't know what the climate's like where you live, but anything before May would be too early in my books (not enough time to get the car ready)(edit: here in Canada).
Location?
  • Choose a scenic route frequented by motorcycles? Such as:
    • Pacific Coast Highway
    • Route 66
    • Natchez trace
    • etc?
      They should be used to accommodating large groups (rest areas, restaurants), and packs of vehicles.
  • A controlled environment?
Aim for a month with an average temp target of 72?
  • Minimizes a/c and heater usage impact on MPG, better for Bikes
  • This would allow for some comparability between events, while still allowing a few windows of time
  • Allows for projects and maintenance to be completed beforehand
.
Thoughts on using a holiday weekend?
  • Would allow for people from further away to participate
  • May cause conflicts in existing plans
  • Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    A holiday weekend would limit participation.
How long should the event be in miles?
  • Open, but the more miles the more accurate
  • Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by niky View Post
    You want to ensure everyone uses at least a few gallons for accuracy... but that would make for a very long run.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WA MPG Rally
    The course was 93 miles long
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MPG Marathon
    Aprox 370 Miles
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tour the Shore
    150 miles
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tour De Sol Championship
    Over 500 miles
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Acton Toyota Hypermiling Rally
    24.3 miles
How long should the event last?
  • Single day
  • full/half
  • 2 day?
  • Comments:
How long should stages be
  • -For automotive needs
  • -For people needs (empty the tanks).
  • - Re-stagger cars to prevent "bunching"
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MPG Marathon
    Drivers should not drive longer than 2 1/2 hours at a time
How to ensure the fill up/ gas usage?
  • Tank filling process:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tri-state rules
    "employ the "fill and refill" method. To avoid errors caused by uneven ground, trapped air in the tank, etc, all vehicles will be filled and refilled at the same pump, facing the same direction each time. On the non OBD-II equipped [pre-'96] cars, the fill will be to the spring loaded unleaded fuel flap for best accuracy. For people with OBD-II cars, who might be worried about possible evap system problems that overfilling may cause, we can employ the slow fill and one click method. If using the one click method, the vehicle must take a least one gallon at the morning fillup, and not show up with a full tank. In other words, no overfilling at another nearby station before the event and then using the one click shut-off at the refill after the event to artificially inflate their mpg result.
  • Tape and initial gas cap?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MPG Marathon
    All fuel tanks will be fully brimmed and sealed prior to the start of the event. If any seals are not intact on arrival at the refuelling point or at the finish, the competitor will be liable to exclusion.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EcoRun
    To avoid filling errors the tank side wheel may be lifted up on a bench of about 10 cm above the ground level.
    Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by niky View Post
    I have serious issues with the fill and refill method, but there really isn't any other choice unless you use fuel cells. If a competitor has air bubbles that get dislodged during the drive, that can affect their standings.
    The slow fill method is a great idea, especially for cars with weird filler necks.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WA MPG Rally
    The rally was run on the honor system, so fill-ups are done at a gas station of the drivers choosing within a mile or so of the start/finish, there are 5 stations.

    Vehicles with integrated MPG displays (Honda Insight in these cases) used their display due to fill inconsistencies with the bladder fuel tank (and they are pretty accurate). Those without displays handed in their fuel receipts and mileage was calculated with a fixed miles.
What kind of route should be used?
  • -City/ Rural/ highway mix?
  • Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by niky View Post
    Highway runs are most fun. City is challenging, but introduces an element of luck to the game. Maybe something rural, or with challenge sections where competitors have to deal with set stoplight sequences and stop signs and obstacles, to mix things up.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Green Grand Prix
    two-stage rally...The first segment of the Doris Bovee Memorial Road Rallies will be a 130-mile, fuel economy event completely on the 2.45-mile short course at WGI, which has hosted competitive racing events since 1957. The rally is open to all classes of road vehicles.After a lunch break, the rally moves to public roads for 90 miles and another fuel economy run.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WA MPG Rally
    consisting of mostly rural roads, about 10% freeway, and about 10% downtown city.
What should the prize be?
  • Trophy or certificates with a gift card enough?
  • Worst MPG?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WA MPG Rally
    I should also mention that there is no prize for getting the best numbers.
    This is a "non-competitive event" to try to give everyone incentive to be honest, but we all know better. They all however, did a good job of keeping everything honest.
How to Rank?
  • Straight MPG
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Acton Toyota Hypermiling Rally
    % over EPA rating
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AMEC
    1. Best overall mpg for gas cars

    2. Best overall mpg for diesels and hybrids

    3. Best ton-mile per gallon [TMPG] Car weight in pounds divided by 2000 times miles driven divided by gallons consumed.

    4. Best carbureted mpg

    5. Best miles per dollar.

Registration Fee?
  • Maybe like $5 pre-register/$10 day of to get an accurate headcount / classification breakdown?
Participant feebies?
  • Event sticker?
  • Event Shirt?
    Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
    I think free food is always a big attractor.
Best ways to get the word out?
  • Facebook
  • Ecomodder
  • Press
  • Clubs
  • ???
    Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
    I would cross advertise as widely as possible. There are many different crowds that use different forums or clubs, Prius people, Honda's, motorcycles, the bio diesel crowd. I think new hybrid and electric vehicle adopters would be receptive.
What should the categories of vehicles be?
  • X-Prize (mainstream w/ a/c http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...e_requirements)
  • Hybrid
  • Full gas
  • Diesel
  • Motorcycle over 700cc
  • Motorcycle under 700cc
  • Unlimited (whatever goes)
  • Home built
  • Streamlined (boat tails, plexi noses, sealed doors)
  • Electric
  • Bone stock
  • Vintage 1945-1973
  • Vintage Pre-1945
  • Trucks
  • SUV
  • Merge any category if less than 2 entries (@ pre-register)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Green Grand Prix
    Spectators will be able to view a wide variety of fuel-efficient vehicles powered by several different fuels including gasoline, biodiesel, hydrogen, propane and compressed natural gas. Many hybrids,plug-in hybrids and full electric vehicles are also expected.

What rules should be used for modifications?
  • How far do we consider stock?
  • List just for documentation's sake? (for other to repeat)

Use as a charity event?
  • Example: $5 to organizers, $45 to charity (direct to avoid issues)
  • Perhaps get a sponsor to cover expenses because of charity
  • Opens event up to more people
  • late fees could all go to to charity to help with penalty for not pre-registering
  • Might make event too expensive to us cheap-skates
Warm Start or Cold Start?
  • Could require everyone to be there an hour before hand, allows cool down, briefing, and socializing.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WA MPG Rally
    It was a cold or warm start, most did luke warm as they were sitting for a while before starting. The time schedule kind of fell apart as there were several vehicles arriving late and I didn't want to exclude anyone. So we ran 'em when we got 'em.
Is it best to have a sanctioning body (if so, who), or go it alone?
  • AMEC
  • AAA
  • ???
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Green Grand Prix
    The rallies are sponsored by the Glen Region Sports Car Club of America and are the only official SCCA road rallies of their kind in the nation

Grouping, Should the cars be allowed to:
  • Go on their own
  • Fixed interval release, say 5 min apart?
  • Interval set by the difference of one person doing 5 over speed limit, and one doing 10% under for the stage? (ie, if you get bunched up, someones going to slow/ fast)
  • Should everyone stay in a pack?
  • Cannonball style?
    Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Depends on fleet size. At GGP & SMCC, the vehicles went out 1 minute apart. "Clumping" will result at that interval.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MPG Marathon
    BaulkingAny competitor stopping or breaking down should do everything possible to ensure that other traffic (including competitors) can pass. Any competitor who is signaled by another driver that he wishes to overtake (two flashes of the headlamps) is required to give the overtaking driver reasonable opportunity to pass as soon as possible, even if this involves slowing down or stopping. Competitors must not indicate that they wish to overtake unless they expect to pull clear afterwards

Use of chase cars?

Reporting Format?
  • Example from SMCC:

Elevation reporting?
  • Example
Legal concerns?
  • I have access to a few lawyers to review
  • Liability insurance?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MPG Marathon
    As a part of the online registration process, every driver and crew member is required to acknowledge their acceptance of the following indemnification:I have read the supplementary regulations issued for the event and agree to be bound by the maned by the General Regulations of the Motor Sports Association Limited. In consideration of the acceptance of this entry or of my being permitted to take part in this event, I agree to save harmless and keep indemnified ALD Automotive, Shell and Stag Publications Ltd. and such person, persons or body as may be authorized by the organizers of the event, and their respective officials, servants, representatives and agents from and against all actions, costs, claims, expenses and demands in respect of death or injury to myself or other persons howsoever caused arising out of or in connection with this event, and notwithstanding that the same may have been contributed to or occasioned by the negligence of the said bodies, their officials, servants,representatives or agents.Furthermore, in respect of any parts of this event on ground where third-party insurance is not required by law, this agreement shall in addition to the parties named above extend to all and any other competitors and their servants and agents and to all actions, claims, costs, expenses and demands in respect of loss or damage to the person or property of myself, my driver(s),passengers or mechanics. I declare that the use of the vehicle hereby entered will be covered by insurance as required by the law which is valid for such part of this event as shall take place on roads as defined by law
CYA info?
  • Cars must me road legal (dot car treaded tires, lights, a mirror)
  • Drivers must be licensed and insured
  • No drinking/ drug use
  • No use of communication devices (texting)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tour de Sol Championship
    Tires will be pressure checked to be 50 PSI or less and must have tread.
Should there be a amateur classification?
  • First time challengers, aka rookie class.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    That might lessen the intimidation factor of a long-running event.
Should we have a new car class, and invite local dealers to compete?
  • No rules, but straight off the dealer floor at stock specs.
Minimum Speed rules?
  • Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    SMCC does this, with a time/speed/distance rally format. You actually have to drive quite hard to make each checkpoint without getting penalized. I think it's a bit too fast.
    But I think a maximum course time is a good idea to keep people from hindering traffic.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by niky View Post
    I'd say have a maximum time, measured out so that you have to average over the minimum speed limit to meet the time.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Green Grand Prix
    Both segments will be conducted at highway speeds.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SMCC Event
    There will be several elapsed time controls at which you may arrive early without penalty. Controls may only be located at the end of a section (EOS). Penalties will be accorded based on fuel consumption and lateness. There will equally be penalties for leaving a control before the given out-time.
    Competitors will be classified based on fuel economy (L/100km) corrected for time penalties.
    Every minute of lateness at a time control will add a 2% (non-compounding) fuel-economy penalty.
    Ex. : 5.0L/100km + 4% (2 minutes retard/lateness) = 5.2L/100km
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WA MPG Rally
    There is a time limit, so drivers can't go too slow.
    Considering this, and the speeds are pretty optimal for good mileage figures the achieved mpg is compared to the '08 combined mileage figure for the vehicle to try to keep the field level.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MPG Marathon
    Penalties will be a deduction from the competitor’s final result, on the following scale:*One half mile per gallon per whole minute late at the time control at the end of each day’s run.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Green Grand Prix
    the time limit was based on driving no less than ten percent below the posted speed limits; it also included a mandatory ten-minute rest stop in the city of Geneva.

Distance Calculation?
  • Google maps
  • Single designated vehicle to record?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MPG Marathon
    Each competitor’s passage will be monitored via a TRACKER satellite tracking unit fitted in every vehicle. This will be used to record the total distance traveled by each vehicle taking part in the event and fuel consumption for each vehicle will be based on the total miles traveled, rather than a fixed route mileage
Have Fun?
  • A fun drive where a "mpg challenge broke out"?
  • Appeal to spouses?
  • Destination/ party spot at the end?
    Comments:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
    Three people going out on a FE run and having fun should be considered a huge success.
Help?
  • Over Estimate how much help you need, someone will back out, or ?
Other?

Links to other race rules. Feel free to mention any others.

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Last edited by Superfuelgero; 12-09-2013 at 02:38 AM.. Reason: Add more crap
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've never organized one, but have gone to a few...

See also: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...3-a-24143.html . Organizer nerdboy is an EcoModder member.

Also, GGP: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...9-a-24524.html

My random thoughts on some of your questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrx View Post
-What time of the year is best?
For best results, the shoulder seasons where it's not so hot that A/C is required (not that any serious competitor would use it!)


The GGP is run too early in the year for my liking. Cool & not enough prep time/weather to get "this year's" new mods ready.


Quote:
Grouping, Should the cars be allowed to:
Depends on fleet size. At GGP & SMCC, the vehicles went out 1 minute apart. "Clumping" will result at that interval.

Quote:
Should there be a amateur classification?
That might lessen the intimidation factor of a long-running event.

Quote:
Minimum Speed rules
SMCC does this, with a time/speed/distance rally format. You actually have to drive quite hard to make each checkpoint without getting penalized. I think it's a bit too hard... for the car I was driving, anyway. (Winning the event with the worst ever fill-up I'd done in my 2000 Insight!)

But I think a maximum course time is a good idea to keep people from hindering traffic.
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Old 12-07-2013, 03:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have serious issues with the fill and refill method, but there really isn't any other choice unless you use fuel cells. If a competitor has air bubbles that get dislodged during the drive, that can affect their standings. You want to ensure everyone uses at least a few gallons for accuracy... but that would make for a very long run.

The slow fill method is a great idea, especially for cars with weird filler necks.

I'd say have a maximum time, measured out so that you have to average over the minimum speed limit to meet the time. Highway runs are most fun. City is challenging, but introduces an element of luck to the game. Maybe something rural, or with challenge sections where competitors have to deal with set stoplight sequences and stop signs and obstacles, to mix things up.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks went out to both of you. I have included your comments into the original post above.
Metro: Thoughts on a March/April time frame? If so, would using a good friday/ easter weekend be good ("Gas Station Passover" might be wrong to some folks)? Or do you think there would be personal conflicts for people?
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A holiday weekend would limit participation.

I don't know what the climate's like where you live, but anything before May would be too early in my books (not enough time to get the car ready). Then again, I'm pretty lazy and slow-moving when it comes to the ol' to-do list.
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
Too busy for gas stations
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
A holiday weekend would limit participation.

I don't know what the climate's like where you live, but anything before May would be too early in my books (not enough time to get the car ready). Then again, I'm pretty lazy and slow-moving when it comes to the ol' to-do list.
April is 72 on average here Average Weather for Corinth, MS - Temperature and Precipitation (that zip code is in the middle of the proposed route). Should be perfect for no a/c or heater usage like you recommended. Perhaps that should be a goal, pick the month for an area where the average temp is 72? that way we can get some consistency between global events?
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I know you're both more on the easterly side of the continent, but it would be nice to have something out in the westerly direction... Perhaps if you come up with a working formula, there could be east & west events. Or even 4 corners
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks, a "best practices" formula is needed. I've updated the original post with more information, from other events. there appears to be a lot of differences between events. Some standardization would help comparability and make an event easier to hold in general.

If anyone has comments or feedback, let 'er rip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NachtRitter View Post
I know you're both more on the easterly side of the continent, but it would be nice to have something out in the westerly direction... Perhaps if you come up with a working formula, there could be east & west events. Or even 4 corners
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Wow, you did a lot of great work on this thread. I think free food is always a big attractor. I would cross advertise as widely as possible. There are many different crowds that use different forums or clubs, Prius people, Honda's, motorcycles, the bio diesel crowd. I think new hybrid and electric vehicle adopters would be receptive.

I made an attempt this year that didn't pan out. I think i should've needed help from a few people to pull it off. Oh, and a gas price spike sure helps!

My other mistake was over thinking it. Three people going out on a FE run and having fun should be considered a huge success.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog 44 View Post
Wow, you did a lot of great work on this thread. I think free food is always a big attractor. I would cross advertise as widely as possible. There are many different crowds that use different forums or clubs, Prius people, Honda's, motorcycles, the bio diesel crowd. I think new hybrid and electric vehicle adopters would be receptive.

I made an attempt this year that didn't pan out. I think i should've needed help from a few people to pull it off. Oh, and a gas price spike sure helps!

My other mistake was over thinking it. Three people going out on a FE run and having fun should be considered a huge success.
So maybe choose "a scenic drive, that a mpg competition breaks out in" kind of thinking?
I've added your comments, let me know if you can think of anything else.
I over think everything...

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Shooting for 600 miles of range at 65-70 mph out of a vx.


Last edited by Superfuelgero; 12-09-2013 at 02:40 AM..
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