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Old 02-25-2020, 06:21 PM   #501 (permalink)
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I think that the biggest culprit here is giving trucks a lower goal.

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Old 02-25-2020, 06:29 PM   #502 (permalink)
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Like most things, there isn't a single reason why x was the outcome. CAFE rules are part of the numerous factors manufacturers use to determine which vehicles to produce.
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Old 02-25-2020, 06:51 PM   #503 (permalink)
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Is the HRV technically a light truck?

I recall another unintended consequence of CAFE related car vs. truck definitions was the raising of ride height to cause a car to be classified as a truck for more lenient regs. Subaru Forester and/or Outback wagon comes to mind. The PT Cruiser was also technically a truck (just learned that recently).

I have no idea if those old rules/loopholes still apply.
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Old 02-25-2020, 06:58 PM   #504 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Interesting summary of unintended consequences. I'd argue Honda could have offered a CAFE-compliant Fit (37 combined on the sticker) through 2024 -- 5 more years of sales -- with existing non-hybrid tech & drivetrains if they'd wanted to.

I think they're bailing early more for other reasons.

2025 onward, your take on needing hybrid tech to avoid penalties makes sense though.
The Fit was redesigned for 2020. That means they either design the new car for the US market and commit for another 6-7 years or pull out. It doesn’t make sense to spend hundreds of millions on a new model in declining segment.

EDIT:
37 mpg isn't good enough through 2024. CAFE requirement goes up 5% every year.

2020 = 37 mpg combined EPA.
2021 = 39
2022 = 42
and so on.

Last edited by JSH; 02-25-2020 at 08:49 PM.. Reason: Clarify increase CAFE requirement
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:44 PM   #505 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Is the HRV technically a light truck?

I recall another unintended consequence of CAFE related car vs. truck definitions was the raising of ride height to cause a car to be classified as a truck for more lenient regs. Subaru Forester and/or Outback wagon comes to mind. The PT Cruiser was also technically a truck (just learned that recently).

I have no idea if those old rules/loopholes still apply.
The HR-V is classified as a light truck as are about 70% of the vehicle sold in 2019. Actual truck sales (pick-up trucks with beds) are pretty flat over time with about 10% of the market. The big shift is people moving from cars to unibody CUVs based on car platforms.

Yes, the loopholes still apply. Classifications are in 49 CFR 523.5

A vehicle is a light truck if it:
  1. Can carry 10 or more passengers
  2. Provided temporary living quarters
  3. Can carry cargo in an open bed
  4. Had 3 rows of seats that 2 fold down to carry cargo
  5. Is designed for off-road operation.

Off-Road operation is defined as:
(1)

(i) Has 4-wheel drive; or

(ii) Is rated at more than 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight; and

(2) Has at least four of the following characteristics calculated when the automobile is at curb weight, on a level surface, with the front wheels parallel to the automobile's longitudinal centerline, and the tires inflated to the manufacturer's recommended pressure -

(i) Approach angle of not less than 28 degrees.

(ii) Breakover angle of not less than 14 degrees.

(iii) Departure angle of not less than 20 degrees.

(iv) Running clearance of not less than 20 centimeters.

(v) Front and rear axle clearances of not less than 18 centimeters each.



Light trucks have been a separate class of vehicles since 1975. The split was based on the case: International Harvester Co. v. Ruckelshaus, D.C. Cir. No. 72-1517, Feb. 10, 1973
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Old 02-28-2020, 11:47 PM   #506 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
That Hyundai looks like one of the things built to satisfy the specific Indian regulation that deals with tiny, unattractive sedans.
In the end, it does look more attractive than the hatchback.


Quote:
And didn't Suzuki just release a next generation Jimny last year?
That's the one I uploaded the pictures.
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Old 03-01-2020, 05:37 PM   #507 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Amazingly, my 60 something year old aunt just bought a Mini! Though all the other women in that generation have gone to SUV's and crossovers as their latest.
Minis are crossovers. They just go the other way.

Standard crossover: Lift a small car and call it an SUV.
Mini: Drop a small SUV and call it a car. Name it "Mini" or something to make it seem even smaller.
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Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

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Old 03-01-2020, 06:31 PM   #508 (permalink)
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Good point.



She actually bought the 2-door car one though. (Cooper??)
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Old 03-11-2020, 06:53 PM   #509 (permalink)
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Considering the Chevrolet Onix is already available in Mexico in sedan bodystyle with 1.0L and 1.2L turbocharged 3-bangers, while in Brazil only the 1.0L is available for both the hatchback and the Sedan either naturally-aspirated (only with manual transmission) or turbocharged (automatic available) and in Argentina there's a naturally-aspirated 1.2L (only manual) alongside the 1.0L turbocharged, it does surprise me that GM doesn't even seem to consider the Onix as an eventual replacement for both the Spark and Sonic in the U.S. and Canada where it could also cater to some of the customers who refuse to consider the Trax or the upcoming Trailblazer as some sort of indirect replacement for the Cruze.
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Old 03-11-2020, 10:26 PM   #510 (permalink)
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GM switched the redesigned Onix from the Gamma platform to their new $5 billion GEM platform (GM Emerging Markets). The GEM platform is not designed to meet US standards

The Spark and Sonic are built on the Gamma platform

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