Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[JSH]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

Yeah, I take your point. But to be fair ... I only said a "Fit sized" vehicle, not "the Fit" itself. A return of a small chassis does not have to be the same drive train. The 1990 Civic Wagon didn't have v-tec, but the Fit did. There was a brief experiment with a Fit EV. CAFE standards could bring the little car back, or a market shift. The Fit came to the USA in Fall 2007, I think, which was before the fuel price run up set in and before the ~2010 CAFE standard increases.

Not unless CAFE standards change. Today they are based on footprint (wheelbase x track) and type of car (car or light truck). The smaller the footprint the higher the CAFE standard for that vehicle. Every vehicle has their own CAFE standard and every manufacturer gets their own CAFE standard calculated based on the actually mix of vehicles they sell. What that means in the real world is manufacturers don't have to make small cars or really any cars anymore. A company could make only full-size trucks and meet CAFE.

The "footprint" idea came out of the Bush era and was first implemented as a NHTSA rule in 2006, overturned in court, passed into law in 2007, and went into effect in 2011.



Today Honda pays CAFE fines on every Fit they sell because it doesn't meet the 2020 standard of 37 mpg combined. (It is only rated at 34 mpg)

The "Fit-sized" vehicle replacing the Fit is the HR-V. It is a CUV and therefore a "light truck" so it only needs to get 29 mpg combined to meet 2020 CAFE standards.

[Xist]

A while ago I looked into how much Hondas grew generation after generation and wondered if there would come a day when the Fit was large enough that they introduce something smaller.

The Fit hasn't really gotten bigger, although the Civic and Accord haven't stopped.

I thought that having the washer and dryer were an odd choice in the television room or is the television in the laundry room?

[Fat Charlie]

The Fit is already Accord sized.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

The Fit is already Accord sized.

The 1990 Civic Wagon had 98.4" in wheelbase (161.7 legnth), the 2008 Fit 96.5" wheelbase (157.4 length), the 2020 Civic is 106.3 wheelbase (177.9 legnth), the 2020 Accord is 111.4 wheelbase (192.2 legnth), and the 2020 Fit is 99.6 wheelbase (161.4 legnth).

The Fit has grown larger but now only matches the 1990 Civic Wagon better as a result.

I checked for context and the early 1950s Nash Rambler, one of the original compact cars, had a 100" wheelbase & 176" legnth.

[Bicycle Bob]

Now I know why overhangs are shorter these days - thanks. Attempts at regulation always distort technology. Britain used to have a lot of shipwrecks because the taxes on ships' hulls encouraged very unseaworthy shapes. Generations have had to cope with the BMC "A" engine's small bores to beat the tax man, and Mercedes had decades of engines designed for racing in their sedans. It sounds as if CAFE has done more to sell excess vehicle capacity than reduce fuel use.

[redpoint5]

I keep saying over and over, the way you reduce the consumption of something is to tax it, not micromanage design.

Consumers and industry would come up with an optimal solution if petroleum were taxed higher, just as European consumers have chosen more fuel efficient options. It's not that Europeans are genetically superior or something, it's simply that they respond to incentives and disincentives just like anyone else.

If we were serious about reducing fossil fuel consumption, we'd simply progressively raise taxes on it. Then instead of a whole bureaucracy required to police the industry to see which companies need to buy carbon credits, you could replace it all with a single job that evaluates if we're on track to meet consumption goals and adjust as necessary.

As an aside, vehicles have become more fuel efficient over time despite their size and weight increases.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

... It sounds as if CAFE has done more to sell excess vehicle capacity than reduce fuel use.

I don't know. Before the recent CAFE standards, say about 2005, total consumption per mile was higher in the USA. It seems like the standards might have market consequences for specific model categories but positive results for the stated policy goal: reducing overall consumption.

Data derived from the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics:


https://transportgeography.org/?page_id=5916

[Bicycle Bob]

CAFE did make my car available here, beating the older import quotas that eliminated the low-price models, but it could have been far, far better. What I'd like to see now is proof that fuel companies are drawing more carbon from the air for secure sequestration than they are selling to burn. We also need a much smaller range in personal wealth, so that nobody can afford to waste much on frivolities. The rush to mandate electric cars is doing nothing about our habituation to pitifully small payloads and admiring excess.

[Xist]

The 1976 Accord hatchback had a 93.7 inch wheelbase and was 162.8 inches long.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Xist

The 1976 Accord hatchback had a 93.7 inch wheelbase and was 162.8 inches long.

The '76 Accord was longer than the '08 Fit. Kinda interesting. But yep, the vehicles on average are getting bigger. But I suspect that the bigger 2020 Accord is close to the same FE as the 1976 Accord (if you take into account two changes in EPA estimates that made higher numbers tougher to game, especially since the 2000s). However, that new Accord has more room, more safety features, is faster 0-60, and has cleaner emissions. I would prefer all that great engineering in a 1976-sized car, but... still kinda amazing, no?