Snow doesnt Kill Mileage...

[Frank Lee]

I love how the guy in the backwards diesel pickup floors it (see the cloud of smoke) like that's going to do anything

[ShadeTreeMech]

I kinda like ABS when driving on ice. Going down a steep hill in the ice one year with an ABS equipped minivan, I enjoyed watching how the van would get up to 15 mph, then it would pulse the appropriate brake to keep the van going straight.

Regardless of which is better, for many people who brake in an emergency, they freeze up which would be certain disater in a standard braking car, but with the ABS it might be ok.

I think the real cool one is traction control. Only drove one car with traction control, and when I got stuck trying to climb a steep dirt driveway, I just gave it gentle throttle til the car sorted how to climb the hill, which it eventually did.

From the wiki article:

A 2003 Australian study by Monash University Accident Research Centre found that ABS:[1]

• Reduced the risk of multiple vehicle crashes by 18 percent,
• Reduced the risk of run-off-road crashes by 35 percent.

On high-traction surfaces such as bitumen, or concrete, many (though not all) ABS-equipped cars are able to attain braking distances better (i.e. shorter) than those that would be easily possible without the benefit of ABS. In real world conditions even an alert, skilled driver without ABS would find it difficult, even through the use of techniques like threshold braking, to match or improve on the performance of a typical driver with a modern ABS-equipped vehicle. ABS reduces chances of crashing, and/or the severity of impact. The recommended technique for non-expert drivers in an ABS-equipped car, in a typical full-braking emergency, is to press the brake pedal as firmly as possible and, where appropriate, to steer around obstructions. In such situations, ABS will significantly reduce the chances of a skid and subsequent loss of control.
In gravel, sand and deep snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quickly. ABS prevents this from occurring. Some ABS calibrations reduce this problem by slowing the cycling time, thus letting the wheels repeatedly briefly lock and unlock. Some vehicle manufacturers provide an "off-road" button to turn ABS function off. The primary benefit of ABS on such surfaces is to increase the ability of the driver to maintain control of the car rather than go into a skid, though loss of control remains more likely on soft surfaces like gravel or slippery surfaces like snow or ice. On a very slippery surface such as sheet ice or gravel, it is possible to lock multiple wheels at once, and this can defeat ABS (which relies on comparing all four wheels, and detecting individual wheels skidding). Availability of ABS relieves most drivers from learning threshold braking.
A June 1999 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) study found that ABS increased stopping distances on loose gravel by an average of 22 percent.[12]
According to the NHTSA,

"ABS works with your regular braking system by automatically pumping them. In vehicles not equipped with ABS, the driver has to manually pump the brakes to prevent wheel lockup. In vehicles equipped with ABS, your foot should remain firmly planted on the brake pedal, while ABS pumps the brakes for you so you can concentrate on steering to safety."

When activated, some earlier ABS systems caused the brake pedal to pulse noticeably. As most drivers rarely or never brake hard enough to cause brake lock-up, and a significant number rarely bother to read the car's manual,[citation needed] this may not be discovered until an emergency. When drivers do encounter an emergency that causes them to brake hard, and thus encounter this pulsing for the first time, many are believed to reduce pedal pressure, and thus lengthen braking distances, contributing to a higher level of accidents than the superior emergency stopping capabilities of ABS would otherwise promise. Some manufacturers have therefore implemented a brake assist system that determines that the driver is attempting a "panic stop" (by detecting that the brake pedal was depressed very fast, unlike a normal stop where the pedal pressure would usually be gradually increased, Some systems additionally monitor the rate at the accelerator was released)[citation needed] and the system automatically increases braking force where not enough pressure is applied. Hard or panic braking on bumpy surfaces, because of the bumps causing the speed of the wheel(s) to become erratic may also trigger the ABS. Nevertheless, ABS significantly improves safety and control for drivers in most on-road situations.
Anti-lock brakes are the subject of some experiments centred around risk compensation theory, which asserts that drivers adapt to the safety benefit of ABS by driving more aggressively. In a Munich study, half a fleet of taxicabs was equipped with anti-lock brakes, while the other half had conventional brake systems. The crash rate was substantially the same for both types of cab, and Wilde concludes this was due to drivers of ABS-equipped cabs taking more risks, assuming that ABS would take care of them, while the non-ABS drivers drove more carefully since ABS would not be there to help in case of a dangerous situation.[13] A similar study was carried out in Oslo, with similar results.[citation needed]

[endurance]

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech

I kinda like ABS when driving on ice. Going down a steep hill in the ice one year with an ABS equipped minivan, I enjoyed watching how the van would get up to 15 mph, then it would pulse the appropriate brake to keep the van going straight.

Regardless of which is better, for many people who brake in an emergency, they freeze up which would be certain disater in a standard braking car, but with the ABS it might be ok.

I didn't intend to argue that non-ABS is superior to ABS, but probably every one of those vehicles in the video had ABS and every one of them locked up. ABS is great on packed snow and asphalt roads, but on loose gravel and glazed ice the skill of the driver is more important than the technology in the car. Every car that I've owned with ABS (1994 Acura Integra, 1990 Chevrolet Silverado, 2002 Honda Civic EX, and 2002 Acura RSX-S) has at some point locked up on glare ice and ultimately, it was my ability to gently pulse the brakes until I could find insipient skid that saved me (although in the 94, I actually couldn't regain control before sliding into another car (complete bonehead move, driving on a 12-15% road I knew wasn't maintained during the winter)). Once all four wheels stop turning, the computer thinks you're stopped, so ABS no longer works. You need at least one wheel turning to have ABS work. Unfortunately, most folks don't know that until after the accident.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I love how the guy in the backwards diesel pickup floors it (see the cloud of smoke) like that's going to do anything

I saw that too.

I figured he was just goosing the alternator to ensure all the air bag sensors had enough juice to fire, imminently.

[comptiger5000]

I agree that drivers rely too much on the car's fancy gadgets, and don't actually know how to drive. My Jeep has ABS, but it rarely kicks in, as I typically threshold brake, and stay off the brakes when turning in snow/ice. If/when it does kick more than once or on multiple wheels, that is a signal to ease up on the brakes a little.

It has no traction control, etc. Rear diff is limited slip, front is open. My friends all get freaked out at me driving around in a couple inches of snow and/or slush in 2wd, and that I'm not terrified when it slides a bit around a slushy corner. There are some corners where I'll pop it in 2wd and gas it very lightly to make the rear end slide a bit, then pull it back into 4wd as I clear the corner, as it's far easier to get through the corner that way at 5-10 mph than by crawling 2mph to make the tight, uphill turn and risk getting stuck in deep, icy slush from too little momentum.

People also find it strange that I downshift to slow down, particularly in snow and ice, and will hold a lower gear in the snow. In bad snow, I've crawled down a couple of steep hills in 4lo, 2nd gear to keep my speed down to 5-6 mph without the brakes.

I was taught how to drive in snow the right way: in a big, empty parking lot. I'm only 18, but the extra crap (traction control, stability control) is just annoying IMO, and impedes the driver's ability to actually drive the vehicle.

[star_deceiver]

Originally Posted by comptiger5000

traction control, stability control is just annoying IMO, and impedes the driver's ability to actually drive the vehicle.

Here here!!! Fortunatly in the Vibe it can be deactivated! It's much easier to power through a corner then let the electronics dance around and beep!

We have many hills like the on in that Spokane vid around here. Most people are either smart enough to avoid them or USE WINTER TIRES!!! Studded ones do wonders!

[t vago]

Originally Posted by comptiger5000

People also find it strange that I downshift to slow down, particularly in snow and ice, and will hold a lower gear in the snow.

Wha...??? How else do they think you're going to keep control of your vehicle's speed on snow/ice? Magical fairy dust? It's as natural as breathing!

[tecrench]

Originally Posted by t vago

Wha...??? How else do they think you're going to keep control of your vehicle's speed on snow/ice? Magical fairy dust? It's as natural as breathing!

Magical fairy dust may explain why the people trying that hill so many times after other have crashed. Like the big SUV "we are safe" attitude (cell phone 1 hand, beer can other hand, putting on makeup rolling thu red lights)
Also all ABS systems are Not equal. Just so much traction available

[IsaacCarlson]

Some ABS systems pulse the whole system all at once if one tire locks up.
Others pulse each wheel individually. I am a HUGE fan of the individual pulsing.
There is absolutely NO point in pulsing all the wheels if they are not all locked up. My car pulses each wheel individually so I can still have normal brakes when the ABS is working, depending on how many wheels are being pulsed. The truck is another matter. You have to be very careful how hard you touch the brakes as it will very easily lock up all four on dry pavement! If driving bare foot, my big toe can put an unsuspecting passenger through the windshield ....if they were not wearing the mandatory seat belt. I pretty much have to down shift to slow down on snow/ice without sliding.

[NHRABill]

great thread

I exercise the common sense of staying home when it snows for as long as I can. If I have a sick day I use it, if I can keep myself out of harms way I will. I was amazed how many idiots were out joyriding around up and down the street more now then when it is clear and dry.

I have been driving a few neighbors about a mile to Robert Wood Johnson a local hospital
there are 2 RN nurses and a Lab Tech. all nice people all live on my block I have the big 4x4 so I offered my neighbor a ride to save her Lincoln from damage.

Now I can drive all side streets to get there and take my time 25mph the whole ride or less. But today I had a Honda civic all PO'd behind me today because I was not speeding through a narrow side street lined with snowed in cars. He was revving his fart can muffler when he made a turn and I was at the traffic light. I laughed to myself thinking they may be seeing the people in the civic later.

Be safe out there and only laugh at the idiocy of other people when they are not looking