special V8 multifuel vehicle

[dustyfirewalker]

Originally Posted by sarguy01

I'm sorry if I got off track trying to talk you out of driving your beloved Bronco. But, if you did buy a car, you'd save thousands in fuel every year...just saying! The difference between 10 and 35 mpg is pretty huge, especially after a few months of the miles adding up. Plus, if you got a beater car, you could experiment to your heart's desire and not worry a whole lot about destroying it. Once you find something that works, then put it to work on the Bronco.

This video is pretty interesting. I also find it amusing that he lets the flames touch the fan and his wall. Does he want his house to catch fire??

So the basic theory here is, get a second fuel cell, heat it with engine exhaust, run the vapors/fumes into the carb and then shut the gasoline supply off? How are the vapors regulated? If you are idling, will too much vapor build up? How do the vapors keep up at wide open throttle on that tiny, fuel sipping 460?

sort of, its just like the old tractors that had hot intakes, the vapor is generated as fuel from the carb hits a hot surface in the intake path, im using exhaust heat for the air, making steam with the exhaust, then putting the hot air and steam through the carb. then it goes through a flame arresting screen to a electrical heater, then through another flame arresting screen into a dual plane manifold. thats what im testing first. if i can get the air+steam to be around 300-500 degf and then atomize 200-300deg oil with the carb (electric fuel line heating so it can be turned off when running gasoline), and hit a surface that is attempting to maintain 1000-1200 deg f, then pass another screen to kill any flames that might occur, i think it will work. look at marcello and his 4 way t fitting he just uses exhaust heat and it seems to work. plus ive seen on another thread in here someone was able to run near 50/50 gas and diesel in their v8. the hotter it is, the more oils you can use. just like the old tractors, and if your compression is a bit high its safer to use steam to keep it from detonating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXOaBupuhlY

it shows the intake charge actually lighting off, technically flames are a state of "plasma"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krwwgIZDUSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIKEWmZSHBk

no smoke, "stock sized carburetor" hot intake, and it runs i have a few things added to my experiment due to larger engine, and higher cr and thats about it

heres another guy ive talked to bill kendrick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_95v-Ap5esI

he does the vapor/heat thing with gasoline, a bit different set up but i think its relevant, he actually shows the engine revving but hes talking more..

[dustyfirewalker]

flame arrestors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAW44WSrruM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkRxxzUYlew&hd=1

[pgfpro]

dustyfirewalker

I'm enjoying your thread keep up the good work!!!

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

There is potential in some alternate fueling and engine management schemes but IMHO you need to walk before you can run. There is a lot of variation in a vehicle's operating environment and I think the learning curve for much of this sort of thing is too steep. I'd use a stationary engine as the mule, and make it perform useful work like space heating and power generation, or even pumping water or some such.

Gotta have to second that. Actually, if you could find either a 2-stroke spark-ignited engine or a 4-stroke Diesel, they seem to be the best options for a "multifuel" development. IIRC Evinrude once developed a "multifuel" outboard motor which could also run on Jet-A1 and JP-8 (altough I'm not sure about how it would fare with heavier stuff such as Diesel fuel or wood tar). Lotus also have been working in a 2-stroke "omnivore" engine...

You may also be interested in a system currently under development by Westport which uses a glowplug to ignite CNG in a direct-injection Diesel engine. If you could apply that as a replacement for the average spark-plug in a random 2-stroke engine, that would be possibly the best setup as far as "multifuel" ability goes, with a quicker cold-start than the old hot-bulb engines...

[P-hack]

2 stroke was my first comment, but we are talking serious mess for whatever the exhaust is pointed at.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by P-hack

2 stroke was my first comment, but we are talking serious mess for whatever the exhaust is pointed at.

Hmm 2cycle + DI + water injection + high compression + Exhaust Recovery + CAT =/ mess

[P-hack]

2cycle + DI + water injection + high compression + Exhaust Recovery + CAT != 460 quadrajet.

There was a hot vapor carb thread recently (though the "carb" option is hard to justify anymore), which concluded with folks wanting to experiment with more advanced techniques on an old idea like this. http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...kes-28177.html

[dustyfirewalker]

Originally Posted by P-hack

2cycle + DI + water injection + high compression + Exhaust Recovery + CAT != 460 quadrajet.

There was a hot vapor carb thread recently (though the "carb" option is hard to justify anymore), which concluded with folks wanting to experiment with more advanced techniques on an old idea like this. http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...kes-28177.html

forgive me for being dense, i dont understand what your saying?

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Gotta have to second that. Actually, if you could find either a 2-stroke spark-ignited engine or a 4-stroke Diesel, they seem to be the best options for a "multifuel" development. IIRC Evinrude once developed a "multifuel" outboard motor which could also run on Jet-A1 and JP-8 (altough I'm not sure about how it would fare with heavier stuff such as Diesel fuel or wood tar). Lotus also have been working in a 2-stroke "omnivore" engine...

You may also be interested in a system currently under development by Westport which uses a glowplug to ignite CNG in a direct-injection Diesel engine. If you could apply that as a replacement for the average spark-plug in a random 2-stroke engine, that would be possibly the best setup as far as "multifuel" ability goes, with a quicker cold-start than the old hot-bulb engines...

i saw that a while back, and it seemed lame to me that they only had it set up for the jet fuel grades, its practically like a regular engine with provisions for kerosene operation

im sticking with a 4 stroke and heres why:

two strokes burn dirty, and the intake charge needs to lube the engine, you throw only hot vapors in and your engine will in short order die, and probly still smoke the whole time running

diesels weak spot is the injector pump and injectors, clog them or melt them with a non lubricative fuel and that gets expensive.

4 strokes are designed to run on "vapors" atomization is an attempt to homogeneously mix air and fuel. the cleanest burns result from full vaporization of fuel, fuel droplets burn from the outside in, and result in unburned fuel. thats a known fact.

i keep drawing paralels to woodgas, you take something that wouldnt burn too well or even be able to fit in the cylinder (wood, plastic, biomass ect) and turn it into a vapor that mixed with air is routed to the engine. ive thought about several approaches to the problem of generating and properly mixing vapor with air. im a mechanical engineering student with plenty of electro-mechanical system experience from robotics to engine management systems trouble shooting, fooling, and improving. the EASIEST solution i see is a carb. you turn the throttle it dumps in fuel based on vacuum signal no computer gets upset about strange O2 readings, or intake air temps, or the fact the CAT is gone (another O2). combine that with the ability to vaporize the fuel, a hot intake and preheating air and fuel, and you have the possibility of generating flammable vapors that will run the engine. what i was extremely worried about until a short while ago was how close the smoke point is to the auto ignition temp. but marcello has a video clearly showing the intake charge igniting in the intake with no serious effect on performance. it goes against what most people think is ok, but if it doesnt hurt who cares. all that 4 stroke needs is a compressed flammable mixture and air that a spark will ignite, it doesnt care what brand carb is on it, doesnt care what sort of flammable vapor is in the cylinder, if it will ignite them BOOM it runs.

thats what im shooting for, is taking things that by themselves wouldnt run the engine, but turn them into flammable vapor and yes the engine runs. doesnt matter where or how you get the vapor as long as its flammable.


it doesnt really bother me admitting failure from before or if this fails or succeeds im looking for anyone who has played with steam injection on a 4 stroke, or anyone whos ran anything else besides ethanol or gasoline in their 4 stroke engine. i really want to hear from those people.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by dustyfirewalker

two strokes burn dirty, and the intake charge needs to lube the engine, you throw only hot vapors in and your engine will in short order die, and probly still smoke the whole time running

There was a guy in my country developing independently a lube system for 2-stroke engines more similar to what is used in an average 4-stroke. I might confess that, in spite of being more excited about Diesel engines, I'd like to fit it into one of those Evinrude 2-stroke V8 from mid-80s to late-90s and throw it into some random RWD compact car...

Altough you still prefer to deal with a 4-stroke, all this talk about alternative fuels got me seriously interested in the upcoming results of your project

[dustyfirewalker]

///edited for length...