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Old 02-25-2008, 11:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennelson View Post
I still think hatchbacks are one of the THE BEST all-purpose vehicles out there!

There is a diminishing return on owning more vehicles. Having 10 different vehicles to do 10 different things is NOT the way to go.
I agree on both points: Hatchbacks are one of the best all-purpose vehicles. I never would of imagine agreeing with those words until I got one. I tolerated it at first, but then something happened. It turns out it was one heckuva design. Commuting economy, the ability to haul LOTS, and to still have some fun.

My philosophy -- if you need anything bigger than a small car or wagon, it's cheaper to rent it for a day or so, than to finance it, insure it, fuel it, maintain it, etc, etc...

Do the Math.

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Old 02-26-2008, 12:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I have 7 cars They all have a specific purpose and pretty much only do one thing well each.

Also a neat trick if you want to do it to avoid the registration and insurance hassles is to buy and sell 5 or so cars a year so you qualify as a dealer and can get dealer tags. That way you can have all the cars you want sitting around and just put the D plate on whatever one you want to drive at that time. A neighbor of mine does that and it is hard to say what car he will be driving from one day to the next.

I think it would be hard to find a car that did everything I needed, it would be a jack of all trades, master of none type of car. Those are most of the time more annoying than not. So my car collection does everything I need done and does it pretty well without having to put up with doing something in a car that it isn't made for.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH77 View Post
My philosophy -- if you need anything bigger than a small car or wagon, it's cheaper to rent it for a day or so, than to finance it, insure it, fuel it, maintain it, etc, etc...

Do the Math.

RH77
Show us yer math if ya would. I don't think so, but maybe you know the ins and outs of rentals better than I.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I just wrote a blog the other week about more or less the same thing. For some reason we think that our cars need to be able to do everything and are therefore not very good at any. It's hilarious watching ads with Volvo station wagons full of mountain climbers or Jeeps splashing through rivers as if that's what all the drivers use them for. Most people buy them because they want to feel safe around the city or like to feel the potential to be adventurous (sorry to any actual mountain climbers or frequent river crossers). If you aren't using your vehicles full potential then downgrade to something you can make the most of. Your idea of multiple cars would be even better if you could share your pick-up with some other close friends, it would be unlikely that you would both need one at the same time. Then you can have 2.5 cars, a commuter, a holiday highway cruiser or people carrier and half a pick up.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Yep. I've got a Civic for driving and a small pickup for hauling. Last week I hauled 6 feet worth of kitchen cabinets, a month ago it was 18 boxes (450 sf) of flooring. It's good to have a truck

When I need to haul larger stuff (4x8), I know plenty of people with full size trucks that I can bribe with extra gas money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
The idea of the right tool for the job is completely logical until you realize that for each additional “tool” you are signing up for another $500/mo payment.
Payment? What's that? The beauty of driving older cars is not having to pay a note. Sock away $100/mo for maintenance/surprises.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
Show us yer math if ya would. I don't think so, but maybe you know the ins and outs of rentals better than I.
So renting....

$68.59 estimated out the door for a "Chevy Colorado, Dodge Dakota or similar"

I pay ~65/year for my car's registration... So we'll call that one rental
Insurance with Esurance is $641.00 every 6 months* for my car....

Adding a 2000 Ford F150 that will be driven less than 5K miles/year. This brings the insurance up to $1,150.00. That's $1018 a year to insure the truck - we'll call that 14.8 rentals.

So just to tag and insure - that's equivalent to nearly 16 pickup truck rentals.

I'm not including gas you'll have to pay for that regardless of which scenario you go with.


Okay, lets go with old pickup. 1981 (as far back as esurance goes) F150 for less than 5000 miles per year. Insurance totals to $1,006.00 . That's an extra $730 every year - equivalent to 10.6 rentals. I'm going to ignore maintenance as I'm fairly certain the '81 will have significantly more wear than the '00...

So to tag an insure the 81' F150 - that's equivalent to about 11 rentals per year.

Back to the original statement...
Quote:
My philosophy -- if you need anything bigger than a small car or wagon, it's cheaper to rent it for a day or so, than to finance it, insure it, fuel it, maintain it, etc, etc...
I too share this line of thought....
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The Rental Secret

Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
Show us yer math if ya would. I don't think so, but maybe you know the ins and outs of rentals better than I.
OK, there's a lot cost analysis, so allow to be brief. First, I don't have room for multiple vehicles. Next, let me check the latest on rental vehicles:

Major hardware outlets rent a pickup / stake truck at about $20 + mileage for several hours (or Enterprise "Rent-a-Van" or U-Haul has one for about $50 for a day). I found a 15-passenger van last year to transport a group of "pre-marriage party folks" for about $40/day from a local truck rental company.

Of course, I cheat and get free days because I drive like 2-3 different cars a week for work -- so for me it works like magic. But when I didn't have the free days, it was still cheaper. When we go out of town, I'll get a weekend special on a 4-cyl. sedan for $20/day or less (which to me is worth the wear and tear on a newer car)...or a Mini-Van for 5+ of the fam on long trips. We travel a lot (for work myself, or taking the fam on road trips).

All of this = no registration, no addl. insurance (unless you opt for the sales pitch), no monthly payment, and you're not locked-in to commuting in a beast. $$$ in in the bizzank.

Just go to websites of the previously mentioned companies or Orbitz.com and compare vehicle prices for your area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattW View Post
I just wrote a blog the other week about more or less the same thing. For some reason we think that our cars need to be able to do everything and are therefore not very good at any. It's hilarious watching ads with Volvo station wagons full of mountain climbers or Jeeps splashing through rivers as if that's what all the drivers use them for. Most people buy them because they want to feel safe around the city or like to feel the potential to be adventurous (sorry to any actual mountain climbers or frequent river crossers). If you aren't using your vehicles full potential then downgrade to something you can make the most of. Your idea of multiple cars would be even better if you could share your pick-up with some other close friends, it would be unlikely that you would both need one at the same time. Then you can have 2.5 cars, a commuter, a holiday highway cruiser or people carrier and half a pick up.
I completely agree. Save the bucks and get what you need, when you need it...

RH77

EDIT: Thanks to Treb for actually doing the complete Math and equivalents
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Last edited by RH77; 02-26-2008 at 02:14 AM.. Reason: Thanks while I crunched the numbers
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet03 View Post
Okay, lets go with old pickup. 1981 (as far back as esurance goes) F150 for less than 5000 miles per year. Insurance totals to $1,006.00 . That's an extra $730 every year - equivalent to 10.6 rentals. I'm going to ignore maintenance as I'm fairly certain the '81 will have significantly more wear than the '00...

So to tag an insure the 81' F150 - that's equivalent to about 11 rentals per year.

Back to the original statement...
I think the first example is fairly disingenuous, since buying a newer used vehicle is quite expensive, so I'll just start with this one.

-There's no reason to pay for insurance every month for a year when someone could just pay for the month they use the vehicle.
-Those insurance rates are quite high IME. On an older vehicle, there is, financially speaking, little need for collision, and a year's worth worth of insurance is ~$600, or about $50/month.
-Reg for vehicles of that vintage IME, is roughly $25-45/year.

So, taking an example from experience, a small uhaul pickup was $20, plus gas and mileage. Gas wasn't too bad since it was a Toyota V6 and unleaded was ~$2/gallon, but it was still about $25 bucks. The mileage charge though, was killer at something like 60-70 cents/mile, and that alone resulted in an extra $100+. Companies that don't have a mileage charge tend to be far more expensive up front IME. (edit) I mention uhaul because I know I can be a bit rough with their vehicles, can I dent or scratch one of the $70-80 enterprise trucks w/o worrying about having to get nailed for it?

Otoh, I can insure something much larger, equivalent to one of their larger trucks, for a month, for the same initial price of their larger trucks. If I factor in the current 80 cent/mile charge, it wipes out any difference in insurance and the yearly registration fee, as well as cutting into the gas. So, my beater truck could get worse mileage and still be cost neutral. That being said, since it's my vehicle, it would be silly not to modify it such that fuel consumption and costs are minimized. In the case of a VO conversion, that's any easy win. But even with keeping a small truck gas and doubling the efficiency, there's a good $50-100+ difference, depending on miles driven, per use.

That being said, something like this isn't for everyone. It requires the facility and desire to wrench, being o.k. with an older vehicle, etc... But, there are lower floors for older vehicle use than there are for rental use. Obviously, this is YMMV, but based on my research and experience going through rental (or tow) companies and not having backup vehicles can cost as much as having additional vehicles. If someone can point me in the direction of a company that offers vehicles in the range of ~$60-80/rental truck with 30 days, or even 3-5 days/unlimited mileage, or maybe less considering a vehicle I use would likely be setup for better efficiency, I'm game, since that would be roughly equivalent in terms of cost.

Last edited by roflwaffle; 02-26-2008 at 05:57 AM..
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:45 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
I think the first example is fairly disingenuous, since buying a newer used vehicle is quite expensive, so I'll just start with this one.

-There's no reason to pay for insurance every month for a year when someone could just pay for the month they use the vehicle.
-Those insurance rates are quite high IME. On an older vehicle, there is, financially speaking, little need for collision, and a year's worth worth of insurance is ~$600, or about $50/month.
-Reg for vehicles of that vintage IME, is roughly $25-45/year.

So, taking an example from experience, a small uhaul pickup was $20, plus gas and mileage. Gas wasn't too bad since it was a Toyota V6 and unleaded was ~$2/gallon, but it was still about $25 bucks. The mileage charge though, was killer at something like 60-70 cents/mile, and that alone resulted in an extra $100+. Companies that don't have a mileage charge tend to be far more expensive up front IME. (edit) I mention uhaul because I know I can be a bit rough with their vehicles, can I dent or scratch one of the $70-80 enterprise trucks w/o worrying about having to get nailed for it?

Otoh, I can insure something much larger, equivalent to one of their larger trucks, for a month, for the same initial price of their larger trucks. If I factor in the current 80 cent/mile charge, it wipes out any difference in insurance and the yearly registration fee, as well as cutting into the gas. So, my beater truck could get worse mileage and still be cost neutral. That being said, since it's my vehicle, it would be silly not to modify it such that fuel consumption and costs are minimized. In the case of a VO conversion, that's any easy win. But even with keeping a small truck gas and doubling the efficiency, there's a good $50-100+ difference, depending on miles driven, per use.

That being said, something like this isn't for everyone. It requires the facility and desire to wrench, being o.k. with an older vehicle, etc... But, there are lower floors for older vehicle use than there are for rental use. Obviously, this is YMMV, but based on my research and experience going through rental (or tow) companies and not having backup vehicles can cost as much as having additional vehicles. If someone can point me in the direction of a company that offers vehicles in the range of ~$60-80/rental truck with 30 days, or even 3-5 days/unlimited mileage, or maybe less considering a vehicle I use would likely be setup for better efficiency, I'm game, since that would be roughly equivalent in terms of cost.
I don't think it was disingenuous - which is why I put an old and a car equivalent to the age of my current car. 8 years is well past the major depreciation hit in the first 36 months. That, and I actually got real quotes - putting my SS# and information in.... I did NOT include collision

But lets take your example

$20 for UHual Pickup rental plus mileage. That's $19.95 + $0.49 per mile. Lets say we'll do 40 mile average per rental (a cross town move). That's $39.60 plus any taxes. This is a situation where say you have to move a crap ton of foam and don't have a truck...


I'm still going by my registration costs - ~$65 It's great that yours is less, but I'm not you Sounds like you pay more per mile at UHaul than I do anyway...

So I'll go by your insurance rate of $600 a year. So I'll pay $665 for insurance and registration a year. Using a UHaul pickup - that's 16.8 rentals. So, after taxes and crap - Lets call it 15 rentals/year. I'm going with the pickup to continue comparing the same vehicle. Insurance rates for those moving trucks absolutely suck (and why we go rid of it...)

Okay, so lets say more miles are done - in your case - 125 miles per rental. That's $81.20 per pickup truck rental. Still 8.2 rentals per year - So ~7 rentals after taxes and crap.

Plus, you can beat the crap out of a UHaul more so than you would your own car - and UHaul has roadside assistance should their equipment fail on you (if it does, your rental is comp.'ed)


Even using your insurance rates - and your mileage - and using the rates from UHaul.com this statement is still valid
Quote:
My philosophy -- if you need anything bigger than a small car or wagon, it's cheaper to rent it for a day or so, than to finance it, insure it, fuel it, maintain it, etc, etc...
The problem is.... People buying trucks/large vehicles in order to avoid a $30 delivery charge a couple times per year...

Quote:
That being said, something like this isn't for everyone.
It's probably less than most which is why mechanics are busy
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Who says you need a stinkin pickup

I just thought you would get a kick out of this. I saw it years ago and just dug it back out.



This is the actual picture taken by the local police before they had the car towed.
I forget where i found it but I saved it cause I thought it was so funny.
Bet now they wish they had rented that pickup.

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