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Old 10-30-2018, 02:37 PM   #681 (permalink)
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They would earn more profit of it was built like a normal car.
But musk says changes to the body have been made since the Detroit Auto necromancers tore that one apart in 2017, but didn't say what.

Yes the rear wheel well on each side of the car used something like 9 pieces if I remember correctly it weighed substantially more than a normal car that uses a 1 piece wheel well.
The more pieces that make the whole the wider the tolerances are going to be. Unless you can measure and cut something back to retain consistency, but that's not how cars are made.

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Old 10-30-2018, 03:16 PM   #682 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The body design is heavily, more complex than it needs to be.
A simpler, lighter body made with fewer bits would be cheaper, more consistent, lighter, faster, easier to make and be on par for the rest of the car. Which would give it even more range, better performance all around.
I never said it was unsafe or even attempted to hint that it was.
Volvo published a paper available online,in which EV performance was evaluated as a function of vehicle mass.
Three vehicle masses were tested and a 'middle weight' SUV won the 'competition.'
When aero,rolling resistance,inertia,momentum,acceleration,braking,a nd regen were compared,there turned out to be a sweet-spot,at which the overall performance shown the brightest.
Kinda like a Goldilocks zone for vehicle mass.
TESLA may have computer-modeled such scenarios,and arrived at the 3,800+ pounds for the Model 3 intentionally.Just a thought.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:29 PM   #683 (permalink)
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fit and finish

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
The body is different than the chassis, and has little to do with safety. It was the body that received the most criticism due to the complexity and lack of precise fitment. There was an image showing a fender well using something like 6 pieces of different material, and containing glue, welds, and rivets for a part that would normally just be formed out of a single piece of material.

It's things like that needing improvement to reduce cost, possibly reduce weight, and improve aesthetic qualities.
The Jan 2018,CAR and DRIVER kinda reamed TESLA on this issue,in their road test review.They didn't like the rear seat at all either.
I'd be willing to put up with aesthetic liabilities for a a zero-carbon vehicle,nationwide charging infrastructure,glass cockpit with annual updates,etc..
We falter before we crawl.We crawl before we walk,.........................
I'm willing to cut them some slack.And if I were in the TESLA demographic,I'd already be driving one.
Ezra Dyer of CAR and DRIVER has put his $1,000 down on a Model 3.He's got home PV.He'll be zero carbon.Smartest road warrior I never met!
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Old 10-30-2018, 04:37 PM   #684 (permalink)
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Didn't NHTSA and IIHS rap Tesla's knuckles for that claim?
Yes they did. This is the NHTSA’s statement:

“Results from these three crash tests and the rollover resistance assessments are weighted and combined into an overall safety rating. A 5-star rating is the highest safety rating a vehicle can achieve. NHTSA does not distinguish safety performance beyond that rating, thus there is no "safest" vehicle among those vehicles achieving 5-star ratings.”
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Old 10-30-2018, 05:03 PM   #685 (permalink)
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It is a matter of economics. If you can make the parts to a high standard the failure rate will be low enough to make replacement or repair seldom.

My parents used to herd problems on their Renaults almost until they became undriveable, otherwise they'd be at the garage more often than at home.
Then they bought a Honda Civic and never had a single issue in 7 years.

The Renaults were relatively easy to repair. But guess what my parents preferred.
A good design is reliable AND serviceable. It isn’t a question of either / or.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:07 PM   #686 (permalink)
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The tesla mod3 only weighs 3,800lb, just think what it would weigh with a real car manufacturer body.

If mid weight vehicles are so great then why does honda try to go light weight with everything on the insite?

If tesla wanted a heavy body they could do what jag and Volvo do, doube, triple or even quadruple press certain sheet metal pieces to make them heavier. Not make a simple part that could be 1 or 2 pieces out of 9 pieces.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:05 PM   #687 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Monro teardown Part II: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...orst-decisions

Basically the electronics and power train are great but the body / chassis need a lot of improvement.

9 panels riveted, bonded, or welded together to make a wheelwell - Wow just Wow! That explains a lot of body / alignment problems they are having.


Partner Tesla's powertrain with someone that knows how to make a car and we would have a winner.
That's all from the April Autoline video AFAIK, which was from a 2017 car.



Leave it up to Bloomberg to spin it into FUD.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:51 PM   #688 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Didn't NHTSA and IIHS rap Tesla's knuckles for that claim? They only award stars, do they not?

My understanding is that the ratings agencies don't say "this 5-star rated car is safer than that 5-star rated car".


(Moot if there are no other top-rated cars.)
I think the NHTSA was more for other media outlets running with Tesla's statement than them rapping Tesla's knuckles. They're just saying that they don't have any categories beyond the 5-star ratings.

NHTSA also publishes scores associated with the probability of injury, rollover, and so on, and Tesla's statement is based on the Model 3 having the best scores in the aggregate compared to other cars. There are some places where other cars score better, but the 3 seems to score the best overall.

https://www.regulations.gov/document...2017-0037-0037

Which Jalopnik more or less summed up.

https://jalopnik.com/how-tesla-made-...afe-1829610576
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:14 PM   #689 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Didn't NHTSA and IIHS rap Tesla's knuckles for that claim? They only award stars, do they not?

My understanding is that the ratings agencies don't say "this 5-star rated car is safer than that 5-star rated car".


(Moot if there are no other top-rated cars.)
The forces on the people in a crash in a Model 3 are significantly lower than even the Model S. The chances of injury in a Model 3 is something like only 6.3%, vs something like 9% in the Model S. And the Model X is only a bit higher than the S.

All three of them are well ahead of the rest of the field - of 5 Star cars. The worst of the 5 Star cars has a chance of injury of something like 29%.

So, there most definitely is a difference between cars with the same rating.

Also, Tesla has made many changes as they ramped up production. We don't know when the teardown car(s) were built.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:45 PM   #690 (permalink)
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If people were rational about their concern for safety, they would drastically reduce the amount of miles driven, avoid driving during high risk hours, and avoid distractions.

Mostly people just want something large so that they aren't on the losing end of their poor decisions.

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