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Old 08-14-2017, 04:01 AM   #181 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
If you told them that, you would be lying. Heating and cooling take power, and lots of it*. That power has to come from somewhere, whether it's fossil fuels, nuclear power, or your rooftop solar panels. That's not even considering what it'd do to your range.
I'm unclear what you are suggesting.

Most people (here) know that it takes energy to condition the cabin of any vehicle. With conventional vehicles, heat is "free" because of the enormous amount of waste heat from combustion. AC comes at a cost of increased fuel consumption.

In my Prius, AC reduces EV range by about 10%. I would expect a similar impact for other EVs.

My electricity comes from cheap hydro. Conditioning the cabin temperature prior to departure makes it comfortable, and the energy would be spent conditioning the cabin even if I didn't condition prior to departure.

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Old 08-14-2017, 01:28 PM   #182 (permalink)
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How much does cold weather lower the range of ICE cars?

EV's have several advantages in cold weather - they do not need to warm up. Electric heated seats are far more efficient than heating the entire cabin. And with direct heated defrosters, they would not need cabin heating at all.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:45 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
We should change the title of this thread--it's officially the "Model 3." Tesla lost a trademark infringement suit some time back to Adidas (die Weltmarke mit den drei Streifen).
Done.

Quote:
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How much does cold weather lower the range of ICE cars?
As an efficiency nerd, this is a valid topic of discussion.

But from a practical standpoint, concerning the average car buyer, it's not. It just means they have to spend 5 minutes refilling their gasser a little more often than they otherwise would. I doubt most drivers even notice they fill up more in the winter than summer (distance driven being constant).
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:58 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JockoT View Post
If your car is sitting in your garage or drive the power it uses to condition the cabin environment actually comes from your charger/mains, so you should still leave with a full charge in the morning. As long as you are connected to a charger it is not an issue.
Certainly it is. That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation which could be used to displace some of the dirty generation, if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car for wussies people who can't handle a wee bit of temperature difference.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:51 PM   #185 (permalink)
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Okayyy.
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It beats using a remote starter with an ICE engine to precondition your cabin.
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Old 08-14-2017, 06:07 PM   #186 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Certainly it is. That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation which could be used to displace some of the dirty generation, if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car for wussies people who can't handle a wee bit of temperature difference.
James I don't precondition the cab of my Volt, even when it's 30 below

I do precondition the battery before leaving so the battery heater is off while I am driving, takes under a nickle of juice to get the battery warm, my Volt maintains 50 miles EV down to about 10F, (assuming I don't have massive fog and freezing rain issues)
which is pretty good, below that it drops
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:29 PM   #187 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation...if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car.
Nothing beats a half-moon windscreen, a half-tonneau, and a leather helmet and a long scarf thrown over your shoulder.
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:45 AM   #188 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation which could be used to displace some of the dirty generation, if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car for wussies people who can't handle a wee bit of temperature difference.
This comment clarifies your opinion of conditioning the cabin.

I don't run the heater in the winter at all unless there is a problem with condensation, which is often. The heated seats are very efficient and warm. They might draw an average of 60 watts each; nothing that would noticeably impact range.

Singling out cabin conditioning from the grid as an unnecessary waste that only weenies would do is arbitrary. We could just as easily single out people who heat or cool their homes as weenies. How about those weenies who watch TV for entertainment when they could be entertained without consuming electricity? How about clothes dryers, refrigerators, toasters, dishwashers, etc.

We could all live in tiny houses, or better yet, 1 enormous communal living space. That would be very efficient. Heck, suicide would save a lot of energy. The point of living is in the enjoyment, and that should include being mindful of efficiency, but for most people, being comfortable is part of enjoying life.
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Old 08-16-2017, 01:36 AM   #189 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
This comment clarifies your opinion of conditioning the cabin.

I don't run the heater in the winter at all unless there is a problem with condensation, which is often. The heated seats are very efficient and warm.
I don't think it clarified it enough. The main reason to run a heater in the winter is to clear the windshield. You're outside, so you should be dressed for the weather, and thus too much cabin heat will make you uncomfortable. (And you wouldn't really be able to feel those heated seats.) Otherwise what happens when you get stranded for some reason? You freeze to death.
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:28 AM   #190 (permalink)
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Not that any of us would want that to happen.

Your spinning of hypotheticals is making me dizzy.

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