08-14-2017, 04:01 AM
|
#181 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,755
Thanks: 4,317
Thanked 4,472 Times in 3,437 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
If you told them that, you would be lying. Heating and cooling take power, and lots of it*. That power has to come from somewhere, whether it's fossil fuels, nuclear power, or your rooftop solar panels. That's not even considering what it'd do to your range.
|
I'm unclear what you are suggesting.
Most people (here) know that it takes energy to condition the cabin of any vehicle. With conventional vehicles, heat is "free" because of the enormous amount of waste heat from combustion. AC comes at a cost of increased fuel consumption.
In my Prius, AC reduces EV range by about 10%. I would expect a similar impact for other EVs.
My electricity comes from cheap hydro. Conditioning the cabin temperature prior to departure makes it comfortable, and the energy would be spent conditioning the cabin even if I didn't condition prior to departure.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
|
|
Today
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
08-14-2017, 01:28 PM
|
#182 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
|
How much does cold weather lower the range of ICE cars?
EV's have several advantages in cold weather - they do not need to warm up. Electric heated seats are far more efficient than heating the entire cabin. And with direct heated defrosters, they would not need cabin heating at all.
|
|
|
08-14-2017, 01:45 PM
|
#183 (permalink)
|
Batman Junior
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,530
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,978 Times in 3,613 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455
We should change the title of this thread--it's officially the "Model 3." Tesla lost a trademark infringement suit some time back to Adidas (die Weltmarke mit den drei Streifen).
|
Done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
How much does cold weather lower the range of ICE cars?
|
As an efficiency nerd, this is a valid topic of discussion.
But from a practical standpoint, concerning the average car buyer, it's not. It just means they have to spend 5 minutes refilling their gasser a little more often than they otherwise would. I doubt most drivers even notice they fill up more in the winter than summer (distance driven being constant).
|
|
|
08-14-2017, 01:58 PM
|
#184 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JockoT
If your car is sitting in your garage or drive the power it uses to condition the cabin environment actually comes from your charger/mains, so you should still leave with a full charge in the morning. As long as you are connected to a charger it is not an issue.
|
Certainly it is. That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation which could be used to displace some of the dirty generation, if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car for wussies people who can't handle a wee bit of temperature difference.
|
|
|
08-14-2017, 03:51 PM
|
#185 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 2,935
Thanks: 326
Thanked 1,315 Times in 968 Posts
|
Okayyy.
.
It beats using a remote starter with an ICE engine to precondition your cabin.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to sendler For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-14-2017, 06:07 PM
|
#186 (permalink)
|
home of the odd vehicles
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,891
Thanks: 506
Thanked 867 Times in 654 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
Certainly it is. That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation which could be used to displace some of the dirty generation, if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car for wussies people who can't handle a wee bit of temperature difference.
|
James I don't precondition the cab of my Volt, even when it's 30 below
I do precondition the battery before leaving so the battery heater is off while I am driving, takes under a nickle of juice to get the battery warm, my Volt maintains 50 miles EV down to about 10F, (assuming I don't have massive fog and freezing rain issues)
which is pretty good, below that it drops
|
|
|
08-14-2017, 07:29 PM
|
#187 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,557
Thanks: 8,092
Thanked 8,880 Times in 7,328 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation...if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car.
|
Nothing beats a half-moon windscreen, a half-tonneau, and a leather helmet and a long scarf thrown over your shoulder.
|
|
|
08-15-2017, 01:45 AM
|
#188 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,755
Thanks: 4,317
Thanked 4,472 Times in 3,437 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
That mains power is coming either from dirty fossil fuel generation, or from cleaner hydro/nuclear/renewable generation which could be used to displace some of the dirty generation, if it weren't being wasted heating or cooling a car for wussies people who can't handle a wee bit of temperature difference.
|
This comment clarifies your opinion of conditioning the cabin.
I don't run the heater in the winter at all unless there is a problem with condensation, which is often. The heated seats are very efficient and warm. They might draw an average of 60 watts each; nothing that would noticeably impact range.
Singling out cabin conditioning from the grid as an unnecessary waste that only weenies would do is arbitrary. We could just as easily single out people who heat or cool their homes as weenies. How about those weenies who watch TV for entertainment when they could be entertained without consuming electricity? How about clothes dryers, refrigerators, toasters, dishwashers, etc.
We could all live in tiny houses, or better yet, 1 enormous communal living space. That would be very efficient. Heck, suicide would save a lot of energy. The point of living is in the enjoyment, and that should include being mindful of efficiency, but for most people, being comfortable is part of enjoying life.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
|
|
08-16-2017, 01:36 AM
|
#189 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
This comment clarifies your opinion of conditioning the cabin.
I don't run the heater in the winter at all unless there is a problem with condensation, which is often. The heated seats are very efficient and warm.
|
I don't think it clarified it enough. The main reason to run a heater in the winter is to clear the windshield. You're outside, so you should be dressed for the weather, and thus too much cabin heat will make you uncomfortable. (And you wouldn't really be able to feel those heated seats.) Otherwise what happens when you get stranded for some reason? You freeze to death.
|
|
|
08-16-2017, 02:28 AM
|
#190 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,557
Thanks: 8,092
Thanked 8,880 Times in 7,328 Posts
|
Not that any of us would want that to happen.
Your spinning of hypotheticals is making me dizzy.
|
|
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
|
|
|