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Old 12-02-2018, 08:20 AM   #781 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Redpoint, Tesla is doing great on it's own? I have read the body is heavy because they use too many body panels that need to be joined. If they used fewer panels it would be cheaper and easier. We have had those super exciting discussions of panel gaps. Why not borrow from industry experts for just the body? They have a revolutionary drivetrain, why reinvent the body?
I think the machines to make big body parts in one go are quite expensive, and not cost efficient in the low volumes of early production?

It is quite seductive to assume this high-tech company has no knowledge of the efficiency of body part construction... but not really likely. They simply had their reasons to make them from smaller parts, and will change it when the production situation calls for it.

As the volumes continue to rise, more and more machines on the production lines will upgrade to high quantity low cost-per-item stuff, driving down production cost.
The car which the $38.000 quote, if realistic at all, was about is not for the base model, nor was it built in entirely the same way the cars will be built once the base model is part of the line. Cheaper batteries, bigger machines and building experience on the production line will drive that cost down.

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Old 12-02-2018, 08:45 AM   #782 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thingstodo View Post
Wasn't there another company that used Tesla power electronics and motors?

Perhaps it comes down to a Not-Invented-Here issue? Or too proud to farm out engineering, even to a company with proven expertise?
Mercedes bought 10% of Tesla and used them for the Smart ED and B-Class EV. Tesla did the engineering and provided the EV components.

It makes sense to farm out low volume compliance cars. The reality is a company like Mercedes doesn’t need Tesla to make an EV. They can contract directly with Panasonic or LG for the batteries - no need for a middleman.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:51 AM   #783 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
I think the machines to make big body parts in one go are quite expensive, and not cost efficient in the low volumes of early production?.
A wheel well stamping isn’t a large part and there is no shortage of companies that can make the stamping die and provide parts.
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:01 AM   #784 (permalink)
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Tesla Model 3

Name me any other legacy car model that can go 310 miles on 2.6 gallons of fuel and is capable of being driven on sunshine. The 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds or less and a top speed of 140 mph rules out other EV's even. No one else is even close.
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:06 AM   #785 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aerostealth View Post
Name me any other legacy car model that can go 310 miles on 2.6 gallons of fuel and is capable of being driven on sunshine. The 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds or less and a top speed of 140 mph rules out other EV's even. No one else is even close.
Legacy car companies are in the business of making money. Until recently there was no prospect of making money on an EV. Now that battery prices are dropping we will see what the legacy automakers are capable of producing.
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:20 AM   #786 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
A wheel well stamping isn’t a large part and there is no shortage of companies that can make the stamping die and provide parts.
Yet there must be a reason why they chose to do it that way in their early production models.
Or do you believe they do it that way for no reason at all?
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:47 AM   #787 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostealth View Post
Name me any other legacy car model that can go 310 miles on 2.6 gallons of fuel and is capable of being driven on sunshine. The 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds or less and a top speed of 140 mph rules out other EV's even. No one else is even close.
That would be even better if they stamped metal body parts as efficiently as legacy car manufacturers.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:01 AM   #788 (permalink)
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They will, in time.
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:29 PM   #789 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Redpoint, Tesla is doing great on it's own?
Elon is an entrepreneur and has re-imagined many facets of the automotive industry. When you try to do so many new things, some of those things are bound to fail, or at least be sub-optimal. I believe the expert critics that say the body is not well engineered. That's a solvable problem. Tesla is also doing direct to customer sales and cutting out the dealership model and price haggling. This seems to be the way of the future to me.

Car salesmen seem like real estate buyers agents to me. You walk into a room that has a sink, a range, cupboards, and a refrigerator, and they say "now this is the kitchen", as if we wouldn't be able to figure that out without being told. The car salesman says "now this is what the car looks like in red", and proceeds to read the list of features found on the window sticker.

Elon said his car company would probably fail, and I give him a 50/50 chance, or perhaps slightly better. Regardless, the ideas put forth will remain and shape how business is done going forward.
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:32 PM   #790 (permalink)
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Yet there must be a reason why they chose to do it that way in their early production models.
Or do you believe they do it that way for no reason at all?
I can’t think of a reason.

The only reason I could think of doing a wheel well that way is if the stamping tool was late. Even then you would likely make a “soft” tool instead of that hodgepodge is small pieces. All those small pieces needed stamping tools as well.

It is almost like they were charged with making wheel well but all the stamping dies had to fit into a tiny press.

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