10-15-2012, 08:16 AM
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#251 (permalink)
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OCD Master EcoModder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dipstick
How are you going to replace the benefits of the water pump?
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Can be replaced by electric, though was not yet brought up in this thread.
Many Hondas have their water pump gear-driven off an engine shaft so for those cars it would be more involved than just removing a belt.
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10-15-2012, 10:10 AM
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#252 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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I'm thinking... If water pump will be electric, and the water flow should be the same there's no point in this because power that mechanic pump will use will be less than electric. Due to alternator efficiency and the pump itself. Unless you're running deep cycle battery. Electric pump I presume should have some serious wattage so it's useless for any longer trip, because it will drain deep cycle battery to quickly.
It's not the best idea in my opinion to get rid off mechanic pump.
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Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
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10-15-2012, 11:09 AM
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#253 (permalink)
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aero guerrilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrzejM
I'm thinking... If water pump will be electric, and the water flow should be the same there's no point in this because power that mechanic pump will use will be less than electric.
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But the pump's flow doesn't have to be the same, in fact most of the time it can be less, for example during warmup. Also, at higher engine rpms the water flow isn't greater, since the pump just starts cavitating, losing energy with no gains.
The speed of an electric pump can be regulated as needed - it depends on engine load & temperature, not rpms.
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[Old] Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread
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10-15-2012, 11:41 AM
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#254 (permalink)
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Corporate imperialist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrzejM
I'm thinking... If water pump will be electric, and the water flow should be the same there's no point in this because power that mechanic pump will use will be less than electric. Due to alternator efficiency and the pump itself. Unless you're running deep cycle battery. Electric pump I presume should have some serious wattage so it's useless for any longer trip, because it will drain deep cycle battery to quickly.
It's not the best idea in my opinion to get rid off mechanic pump.
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I have a 55gpm pump on the diesel and it only draws 70 or 80 watts.
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10-15-2012, 05:30 PM
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#255 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw
But the pump's flow doesn't have to be the same, in fact most of the time it can be less, for example during warmup. Also, at higher engine rpms the water flow isn't greater, since the pump just starts cavitating, losing energy with no gains.
The speed of an electric pump can be regulated as needed - it depends on engine load & temperature, not rpms.
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I wasn't talking that flow have to be constant, I was saying that it should be similar to original flow.
I agree that electric pump has advantages over mechanical one, but I'm sure that factory, regardles of the car make spent enough money to do it right.
I can't agree that limited flow during warmup is a good idea though. It's best in my opinion to warm up engine as even as it's possible and limited flow works against it. I think that higher flow would be better to warm up engine more evenly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4
I have a 55gpm pump on the diesel and it only draws 70 or 80 watts.
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That's less than I thought, thanks for sharing.
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Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
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10-15-2012, 11:04 PM
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#256 (permalink)
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Grrr :-)
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the pump I plan to use will draw 6amps stock. I plan to cut that in half since its designed to cool a racing V8 sized engine.
but its rated for a continuous duty cycle which is what I need. I plan to cut power to it to "slow it down" quite a bit. once the pump is at the minimum needed speed the pump stops actually "doing" anything more. your thermostat takes over at that point opening and closing as needed.
what I would LOVE is to have a "clutch" on the main drive pulley so I can just push a button to "stop" the alternator and water pump all together without having to remove them. THAT would be ideal. then just push a button to re engage them. I could even make it automatic. every time I start the engine engage the clutch for say 60 second then turn it off. this way keeps things lubed and rust free etc..
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10-16-2012, 03:53 AM
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#257 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys
what I would LOVE is to have a "clutch" on the main drive pulley so I can just push a button to "stop" the alternator and water pump all together without having to remove them. THAT would be ideal. then just push a button to re engage them. I could even make it automatic. every time I start the engine engage the clutch for say 60 second then turn it off. this way keeps things lubed and rust free etc..
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That can be done.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ing-14952.html
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Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
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10-16-2012, 07:35 PM
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#258 (permalink)
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EcoModding Lurker
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Some times different approaches each have advantage. When it is Cold, you may want the engine to warm up Fast. If you park in the yard, a block heater might be good. But if you want to go Fast - Now! I used to have a VW Rabbit Diesel. As soon as the engine caught, I was riding the clutch. I was going to get Cold and Wet when I got to the Fire.
I have personally seen an answer to the water pump question. Teakettle. Put the radiator up Higher than the engine. Let the engine boil into the Radiator, and the condensate drop back into the engine. Saw this in 1930's Chevy? Guys were looking at it, and could not fine any water pump.
Keep It Simple Stupid. KISS
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10-16-2012, 07:47 PM
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#259 (permalink)
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Corporate imperialist
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Power steering delete - EcoModder
Its a P/S delete wiki with some info I added on P/S clutching.
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1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
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10-17-2012, 08:44 PM
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#260 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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I disconnected the ps on the insight which is electric and gained 3 mpg. It wasnt too much difficult to steer than before.
As for water, you dont want to do that as it will generate hot spots and maybe even stress. Frankly, not sure you can guess when it should be off or on.
An insight owner did away with his mechanic pump for water and used a solar hot water one on electric. It ran at a lower volume and I understand it worked well with the cooling system and antifreeze in it.
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