Test: Alternator vs. no alternator = 10% MPG gain @ 70 km/h

[ecomodded]

Originally Posted by Christ

On both my diesel Golf, and now the Festiva, I have no cooling fan. Don't let your car idle for any longer than you have to, and channel as much air through the radiator as you can by keeping airflow from going around, over, or under it.

Cooling fans, installed on the already piggish cooling systems of today's cars, are actually unnecessary. They're designed for a lazy market that likes the supposed convenience of leaving their car idle forever.

The only time it might be warranted (the cooling fan) or necessary, is if you're leaving the car on to utilize A/C. Even then, it's fairly easy to make a relay setup that will also turn a smaller, maybe 5A cooling fan on when you turn the A/C clutch on.

Removing the fan actually increases cooling capacity, also. It makes it so the air doesn't have an obstacle to move around. This is pretty easily identified because the airflow through the radiator moves the fan - obvious flow reduction.

My AC is dead so removing its mini rad will help keep the main rad cooler,its directly in front of the entire main rad. I will do this next, as summer is here ,so its time.

I only hear my electric main fan turn on briefly while at stop lights during a heatwave and once or twice while driving in a heat wave on hilly terrain, I was really surprised when it kicked in at 80kmh.

I already have a electric rad fan so i am keeping it. I am going to look into supplying it with less amps.
I can put a 5 amp fuse inline,possibly, to reduce the draw, i'll have to look into that..
Main thing right now is remove the ac rad, what a air hog.

[Uncle Dave]

Looking over this thread, I have an idea.

First, the average current drain is quite low. If you are thinking of using Solar, it is very low. The big drain is Starting; were you are using 100Amps or so. Lights with the use of LEDs has reduced the second load.

How about Ditching the Altenater?

You will need a low energy source.

How about a Magnet placed up against the Fly-Wheel teeth? It could produce a small amount of Current. Not much, but, if you can store enough for a Start, you will have it made.

One advantage is that you could do away with the Slip Rings of the Altenator which is a point of failure over time, plus the bearings. OK, you will not be able to run your 100 RMS amplifier, but we are looking for MPG economy.

This is basically a Water Wheel generator of the early days.

You are not adding weight to the engine. The Fly-Wheel is already in place.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Uncle Dave

Looking over this thread, I have an idea.

First, the average current drain is quite low. If you are thinking of using Solar, it is very low. The big drain is Starting; were you are using 100Amps or so. Lights with the use of LEDs has reduced the second load.

How about Ditching the Altenater?

You will need a low energy source.

How about a Magnet placed up against the Fly-Wheel teeth? It could produce a small amount of Current. Not much, but, if you can store enough for a Start, you will have it made.

One advantage is that you could do away with the Slip Rings of the Altenator which is a point of failure over time, plus the bearings. OK, you will not be able to run your 100 RMS amplifier, but we are looking for MPG economy.

This is basically a Water Wheel generator of the early days.

You are not adding weight to the engine. The Fly-Wheel is already in place.

I'm not certain how this would work, but if the flywheel is generating electricity, then I would assume it must be adding load to the engine.

[Uncle Dave]

Yes that is correct. But how much. Basically it would be something like the Flash Light that you can make light, by shaking a magnet in a coil. The teeth can change the Magnetic Flux, and make a little bit of current. Voltage would be the number of turns in the winding over the magnet.

We are not changing the Arodynamics of the Car. Have not added weight, possibly reduced it.

Just trying a new idea.

My dad was a Geek at MIT back in the 30s. The idea then was to make a Steam engine go faster than 117 MPH. One person will not change the world, but can spark an idea that others can add to. Sort of what this is all about. They DID get the speed, and now all you have to worry about it the banking of the Road Bed.

[Nerys]

nope. no flywheel generator. the purpose of getting rid of the alternator is to get rid of the LOAD from the alternator.

for the most part 2 deep cycle batteries will run a "geo metro" for a week.

now more complicated cars? ahh no. my electric fans in the minivan are cycling ALL the time. batteries would not last long in that and at that scale the alternator is "minor" regarding fuel economy.

with the geo metro removing the alternator (and water pump thats important) loads should have a pretty dramatic impact on fuel economy.

I am still working on this. I just lack cash. once I have the cash to get the electric water pump things will move quickly.

[Uncle Dave]

You are going from the engine through the belt, then an alternator, then the battery.

No matter what, we put a load on the engine. I am wondering if you can't use the spinning fly-wheel directly without having to take a ride on the Drive/Fan belt. Only a few percent. But isn't that is what were are looking for?

What you are doing is taking the energy to run the fan off the Grid, rather than the gas in the can. Not really trying to save in the Total Scheme of things? MPG

There may be another way. I just visited a Show. There was a car without any sort of water pump. It looked to me, to let the water boil, steam going up into the radiator, and the water would drop back into the block. I believe that it was a 1930's Chevy.

Then, you could get rid of the engine altogether? They do it most everyday here in my town. They have to due to pollution problems.

[Nerys]

some would say I am just transferring the energy to the grid.

2 notes.

One your gas comes "from the grid" too and a battery is around 90% efficient your gasoline engine is around 1-2% efficient (converts maybe 1-2% of the energy in gasoline to HEAT and your engine then extracts maybe 20-25% of that "heat" energy and converts that to mechanical motion)

Two. electricity is DIRT CHEAP compared to gasoline.

my MPG will go up (in theory quite a bit) while my electric bill will also go up the increase will be a microscopic fraction of the amount I save in gasoline.

at least in theory.

[oil pan 4]

The fly wheel teeth are only going to put off enough power to give a signal to a tachometer unless you machine and epoxy magnets into it.

[Uncle Dave]

This is correct. Or could you hold the magnets, and coils close to the teeth.

OK, like they to the Timing. But this time not a small sensor, but with a stronger pulse. The old water wheels were a full ring around the central disc. We are not powering a town, but just one car, that is using a minimum load.

You are correct, there will be some machining, and location problem. Should be able to be on the engine casting, not the wheel its' self. On the wheel its' self would make for Ballance problems.

You have the idea. You are making a tack, but a wee bit larger.

[dipstick]

Sorry guys, (admittedly I have not read this thread in depth so I could have missed something) I just got this msg and realized that what is being discussed will not work for several reasons.

First, I rebuild Alternators and generators as well as electric motors of all kinds, and am a motor distributor.

A few surface reasons this will not work:

Let's say you remove the slip rings... what do you gain? You must keep the alternator in place for the belts... unless you go electric on water pump...then you are back to needing the Alt to charge.

Let's say you remove the bearings too... then how do you allow the rotor to turn to accomplish the above?

Let's say you remove the rotor with its slip rings and bearings completely and you have developed a belt alternative... ok now we are 3-5 pounds lighter... but then why would you leave the alt housing and stator coil as well as the electronics which all = dead weight... unless you were wanting to utilize its built in rectifier and voltage regulator for the flywheel unit you were discussing... but... in this case, you need a special regulator because most of the units in vehicles are designed to only activate and allow flow at a given voltage, which is defined by the output of your new coils, which are defined by RPMs and coil size/wire diameter etc........

But now we have another problem as the alternator also needs a fan to cool the coils or they burn up the insulation of the wires and they short out... = no charge.

SOOOOoooooooooooo...............................

Solar is a good option if you can maintain 14.4V+/- .4V as is a wind turbine... yes you can throw a shoe at me for suggesting a drag increase......

Or you could go with a weaker alternator... but for the most part you would only save 1-2 lbs max I would assume.

OK, if anyone needs to chat or buy parts to experiment or play, give me a call or email me (but as you can tell, I stay busy and am not a regular email reader).

AAA Alternator Service
3aaltservice@gmail.com
660-263-0984
Ask for John.