There less oil than we think - Wikileaks

[Varn]

Just saw this in the morning news.
wikileaks: Saudi Arabia drastically overstated oil reserves.

[NeilBlanchard]

Older post on this:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...oil-16060.html

[Varn]

Thanks for the link back

[RobertSmalls]

Leaked Cables Reveal U.S. Concerns over Saudi 'Peak Oil' - NYTimes.com

The thing that caught my eye about this is that Saudi peak oil isn't in the past, in the future. In fact, it's about 17 years from now, and that just means that 2028 will have just as much Saudi oil as 2027. The tap isn't going to snap shut next year (as the doomers have been saying since the 80's); supply will slowly decline year over year, and that's just the cheap, conventionally extractable stuff. Though the rest of the world's supply doesn't look as good as the Saudi's.

I'm ready for the end of cheap energy. I hope the rest of you are either where you want to be, or at least getting close.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

Leaked Cables Reveal U.S. Concerns over Saudi 'Peak Oil' - NYTimes.com

I'm ready for the end of cheap energy. I hope the rest of you are either where you want to be, or at least getting close.

Are you really? Better have a passport and a good spot in Brazil or the Northwest territories where they won't find you

My guess is when energy starts becoming expensive in the true sense you will see jobs dissappear, wages drop massively, prices skyrocket and property taxes become impossibly high. Around here they want to increase property taxes because of foreclosures, makes good sense eh?

So even if you can live off the land as it were you probably will loose your property if it gets that bad.

If the fire is burning the house down, add more gas.

[SVOboy]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Are you really? Better have a passport and a good spot in Brazil or the Northwest territories where they won't find you

My guess is when energy starts becoming expensive in the true sense you will see jobs dissappear, wages drop massively, prices skyrocket and property taxes become impossibly high. Around here they want to increase property taxes because of foreclosures, makes good sense eh?

So even if you can live off the land as it were you probably will loose your property if it gets that bad.

If the fire is burning the house down, add more gas.

Moving from the US to Japan is basically a microcosm of what it would be like in the US if energy stopped being cheap.

I pay 3x what you people pay for electricity, which is pro-rated to charge more if I use lots, 2x for gas, 2x for natural gas, have to buy trashbags to throw out my trash, etc etc on and on. No big deal though.

When people get used to having 90% of their money to spends on things they don't need, that's where problems arise, in my opinion.

[roflwaffle]

SVOboy hit it on the head. People will end up paying more directly, and probably the same overall, for energy, so they'll use it more efficiently. Jobs and taxes are something else entirely. We could have 10x the oil we have now and still see counties charging more in taxes, and we could have an extremely low energy economy and still have good employment. For all I know, most of the doom and gloom is propagated by fossil fuel companies.

[Jim-Bob]

I saw this two days ago on Fox News and it scares the hell out of me. I don't have a decent career and depend on pizza delivery for my sole source of income. The end of reasonably priced energy will mean desperate poverty for me with no way out. I am already having a difficult time affording food, fuel, insurance, taxes, etc. When people in my situation suddenly can't eat, well then you can expect mass civil unrest as we will have nothing to lose. Now I am not one for violence and likely would not participate in any lawlessness but you can be damn sure that I am in the minority. If it happens suddenly then you had better be living far away from civilization and be well armed to protect yourself from all of the working class people who will suddenly be very poor, very hungry and very desperate.

It's also very important to realize just how dependent on petroleum-derived hydrocarbons our culture is. Do we need to migrate to something else? Sure we do. However, taking them away quickly will absolutely destroy our lives as we know them. It's not just vehicle fuels as that accounts for only bout 50% of our oil consumption. It's things like food packaging, medical supplies, computers and roofing too. What we need then is an orderly, gradual shift in our technologies and the time to do so. Rapid loss of oil will lead to chaos and anarchy. Do I think people should buy gigantic, inefficient land tanks like the Toyota Highlander or Cadillac Escalade in huge numbers? No. It's irresponsible for that to continue because those people are only expediting the loss of oil and reducing the time we have to replace it.

Above all though it is the poor and working class that will suffer most. The poor typically rely on older technologies and used cars for transportation. They can't afford to own and service a new car and in many cases have poor credit. These lower income people rely on picking the bones of the middle class by going to junkyards for used parts to keep these cars going. A sudden loss of fuel would not be a mere inconvenience to them that forces them to buy a new car. That is what the middle and upper classes will do. No, it will pretty much wipe out their lives. Remember, the US does not have good public transportation outside of the big cities. So, lets work to find a good alternative for the future but let's hope and pray that it happens slowly rather than rapidly.

[stovie]

I was reading my popular science magazine and they say that we have the technology to take co2 out of the air and make fuel from it through some chemical processes, but they say the cost would be about 4 dollars per gallon so it's not reasonable. I was thinking they need to get the technology going so they can better the process you know like have it to where 20 percent of our fuel is produced from co2 in the next 10 years because if they add it to gas instead of ethonal then it would be more reasonable to do. If 20 percent of our fuel was made from co2 and the price is 4 dollars per gallon, and the price of fuel where i'm at is 3.14 dollars per gallon a 20 percent mix would be 3.51 dollars a gallon. Also the crap where the government stoped all nuclear power plant production was completly stupid cause the chinese are opening a power plant thats 100 times more effiecent then anything we have and there's no nuclear waste cause the plant burns the rods afterwards, so no radioactive waste to deal with.

sorry jim-bob i was in a hurry last night

[Jim-Bob]

Originally Posted by stovie

i was reading my popular science mag and they say that we have the technology to take co2 out of the air and make fuel from it through some chemical processes but they say the cost would be about 4 dollars per gallon so it's not reasonable now but i was thinking they need to get the technology going so they can better the process you know like have it to where 20 percent of our fuel is produced from co2 in the next 10 years because if they add it to gas instead of ethonal then it would be more reasonable to do for example if 20 percent of our fuel was made from co2 and the price is 4 dollars per gallon and the price of fuel where i'm at is 3.14 dollars per gallon a 20 percent mix woul be 3.51 dollars a gallon. and also the crap where the government stoped all nuclear power plant production was completly stupid cause the chinese are opening a power plant thats 100 times more effiecent then anything we have and there's no nuclear waste cause the plant burns the rods afterwards so no radioactive waste.

Your post is very difficult to read due to your lack of proper punctuation and capitalization. I'm not trying to be the forum's grammarian but your posts would have far more credibility were you to clean them up a bit before posting. The lack of ANY periods makes it seem as though it is a paragraph-length run-on sentence. Remember that this is not a text message. It is a forum post where you have time to write in a cogent and concise manner.