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Old 06-24-2022, 02:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by pgfpro View Post
I did some calculations on how much the usage nitrous would cost for 7lbs. It came out to around $30.00 for 12 gallons of gasoline or 603 miles. On waste solvent it would be worth it to test the numbers.
So, you already have a comparison baseline for the usage of gasoline and NOS, yet you still didn't try NOS and waste solvent? Do you have any clue about the solubility of some solvent on water, which could eventually enable its usage as the antifreezing fluid instead of methanol which is widely mixed with water on the supplemental injection setups?

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Old 06-24-2022, 08:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
So, you already have a comparison baseline for the usage of gasoline and NOS, yet you still didn't try NOS and waste solvent? Do you have any clue about the solubility of some solvent on water, which could eventually enable its usage as the antifreezing fluid instead of methanol which is widely mixed with water on the supplemental injection setups?
The only reason I haven't tried waste solvent and N2O is because the waste solvent I get for free isn't a constant. The main solvent is Acetone with Toluene in the waste solvent being the second main ingredient, but there are several other solvents that range in the 28% or less. I have done testing with my home-made gas generator and the heat value is the same as E10 and E0 pump gasoline. The other reason is just good old time and not enough of it lol. I just been so concentrated on my home built pre-chamber trying to make it better that the waste solvent N2O tune took a back burner.

The other thing I'm always testing is my fuel system and doing long term testing to make sure that the waste solvent doesn't kill my fuel pumps and injectors. The GEM fuel I make from Methanol, Ethanol and pump92 gasoline E0 is only for making high HP. I pull the waste solvent pumps and run Methanol fuel pumps when I'm racing etc.

I'm sure that the waste solvent and N2O will get me the same results in FE, but I still need to test it. I do know that the waste solvent much to my surprise can't make anymore then 250HP due to knock issues. I thought for sure the waste solvent would be a great fuel for HP but much to my surprise it sucks. I've ran it way richer at high load and lean and it made no difference it still is HP limited because of knock.
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Old 06-24-2022, 09:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
Upper class and graduate courses expand on these concepts. You are but a hop, skip and jump from a doctorates.

We also must add that pgfpro has certain advantages built into his engine system. His head design as well as the turbocharger produces increased turbulence and adds heat to the combustion mixture. The reaction rate ( increased thermo-chemical reaction rate ) is reflected in his need to only add 4 degrees ignition timing. In our attempts to run ultra lean mixtures with a Daihatsu engine with hemispherical combustion chambers, we found we had to add over 15 degrees additional timing to reach our torque potential.

I am not sure if his 4 degrees of timing included the NOs injection?

The bottom line is that . . . increased heat, increased turbulence and increased thermochemical activity result in increased flame speed.

Compressing the air/fuel mixture increases the heat.

A high swirl/tumble head design increases turbulence as well as the force of a turbocharged system.

The addition of oxygen, ozone or hydrogen allows for increased thermochemistry to occur.

In the run-up to the AutoXprize, a team proposed to run an engine on pure oxygen and gasoline. This was an extreme proposal that would need ceramic materials and water injection. The longevity of the ceramic materials was questionable and the amount of water needed was considerable to carry about. Outside of how to produce and carry the pure oxygen the idea was sound in that the ignition initiation could be carried out just before top-dead-center (TDC). I do not recall their expected target for BSFC (brake-specific-fuel-consumption).

Using the nitrogen in our surrounding air as a working fluid is much more plausible if we can keep combustion temperatures below 2300 degrees Centigrade or if reactions occur quickly enough to prevent the formation of NOx pollutants.
RustyLugNut, first off thank you again for your post and everyone else. I really appreciate everyone's input

The 4* timing advance added to my base timing is without N2O and just lean burn around 30:1. When I ran the N2O I took the 4* back out and in fact another 6* remove from my timing advance. This where if I could add hydrogen or some type of flame accelerant to the mix that is cost affective would really make my day.

One more stupid question is there a catalyst like on some glow plugs that's a fuel??? My pre-chamber has a .50" electrode and was wondering if there is some type of catalyst coating that could be coated on it to help with the rich zone of the chamber?
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by pgfpro View Post
I do know that the waste solvent much to my surprise can't make anymore then 250HP due to knock issues. I thought for sure the waste solvent would be a great fuel for HP but much to my surprise it sucks. I've ran it way richer at high load and lean and it made no difference it still is HP limited because of knock.
I must confess I was quite curious when I found out you were actually using waste solvent as a motor fuel, exactly because it's not the most appropriate one. I still remember watching the news and reading about how badly damaged some engines would get due to adulteration of gasoline with solvents which was a common problem in my country in the late-'90s.
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Old 06-25-2022, 10:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I must confess I was quite curious when I found out you were actually using waste solvent as a motor fuel, exactly because it's not the most appropriate one. I still remember watching the news and reading about how badly damaged some engines would get due to adulteration of gasoline with solvents which was a common problem in my country in the late-'90s.
To be honest I keep thinking there will be some issues but so far not one.
I haven't even added any lubricants to the waste solvent also. The only upkeep I do is after about 200 gallons of WS I run one tank full of pump 82 through. I have even run it on other straight solvents like DTR600 and DTR 601 and MS 251 clean up thinner etc. Even my test lawn mower is still running that lived on the waste solvent for the past three years. It runs a littler leaner because its a fix jet carburetor but I don't care I'm trying to break it and she keeps going. lol
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Old 06-27-2022, 04:16 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The easy way to understand lean burn/EGR dilution is to look at the efficiency expression in terms of expansion ratio for the Otto cycle (or the Atkinson cycle, which has a different compression ratio).

Both Otto and Atkinson cycle ideal efficiency are only dependent on compression/expansion ratio. So theoretically, adding more heat (e.g. adding N2O, O2 plus more fuel) doesn't change the efficiency.

In the real world, the compression stroke has some parasitic loss from ring and bearing friction. If you reduce power, you are reducing mechanical efficiency.

However in the real world you also have these cooled metal parts next to the flame that are absorbing heat, and they absorb more heat the hotter temperatures are.

Empirically, lower temperatures more than compensate for the lower mechanical efficiency, if you can hold everything else constant. The thing that is hardest to keep constant with a heavily diluted mix is combustion speed and efficiency.
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Old 06-28-2022, 01:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Have you never tried kerosene? As it has a lower octane rating than gas, just like the solvents, probably you would already have a baseline for your tests.


Quote:
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Even my test lawn mower is still running that lived on the waste solvent for the past three years. It runs a littler leaner because its a fix jet carburetor but I don't care I'm trying to break it and she keeps going. lol
Is the lawnmower engine a flathead? As they often have low compression ratio, handling such lower-grade fuels didn't really seem to be much of a problem.
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Old 06-28-2022, 02:36 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Have you never tried kerosene? As it has a lower octane rating than gas, just like the solvents, probably you would already have a baseline for your tests.




Is the lawnmower engine a flathead? As they often have low compression ratio, handling such lower-grade fuels didn't really seem to be much of a problem.
I haven't tried kerosene. I'll have to give it a go?

Yes, it just a 10-year-old craftsman lawnmower with an altered float and Vinton O-rings.
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Old 06-30-2022, 01:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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I haven't tried kerosene. I'll have to give it a go?
Well, maybe

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