TIGON Diesel Hybrid

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

You know I live in Brazil and I'm already used to CNG, and I can ensure you that it's not so easy to mess with as it may sound. Altough CNG supporters say it's a safe fuel, they're usually more rigid about the safety measures that the average Joe would rather neglect.

[justme1969]

If you can holster a t5 you should conscider the t10 instead more expensive but also gearing is more expansive.

[GreenHornet]

Here is a list of the T-10 gear ratios below. Now as you can see there are a few things that immediately stick out. First the T10 is only a 4 speed. Second the T10 has no over drive gear ratio. Over drive gear ratios are very important for cruising fuel economy as they allow you to drop engine rpm and obtain more mpg. While they were very stout and designed for power and racing the gearing would not work near as well as a T5 transmission for my application. Not to mention the T10 is more of a specialty transmission and like you pointed out is more expensive. The T5 will handle more than enough torque and horsepower for my proposed design. The T5 were used in Mustangs among others which from a horsepower and torque perspective make Tigon seem laughable even with the hybrid torque and horsepower boost. T5 transmissions can handle 300 ft-lbs and be built up to with stand more if desired. They have 5 gears with lower initial gearing and overdrive up to .63. This is a huge advantage to an ecomodder not offered in a T10 which as you can see only have a 1.00 4th gear as its tallest option. Also the lower initial gearing allows you to accelerate much quicker than in a higher gear selection. The T10 has a 2.88 first gear option while the T5 has a 4.03. So with a T5 you can configure it for excellent quick starting acceleration around town yet get incredible cruising MPG ability while on the freeway with the tall .63 overdrive. Also the T5 is used in tons literally tons of vehicle makes and models so this means its cheap and extremely easy to find. Every local wrecking yard will have them and new parts are extremely easy and cost effective to source for rebuilds. T5 transmissions are also very customizable and extremely easy for the DIY guy to rebuild. Many books and videos are available to help guide a first time rebuilder in the T5 rebuild process.

Warner T-10 2.54 1.92 1.51 1.00
Warner T-10 2.10 1.64 1.31 1.00
Warner T-10 2.54 1.89 1.51 1.00
Warner T-10 2.36 1.78 1.41 1.00
Warner T-10 2.36 1.76 1.41 1.00
Warner T-10 2.73 2.04 1.50 1.00
Warner T-10 2.36 1.62 1.20 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.64 1.61 1.23 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.64 1.75 1.33 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.88 1.74 1.33 1.00
B-W Super T-10 3.44 2.28 1.46 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.23 1.77 1.35 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.43 1.61 1.23 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.43 1.76 1.47 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.64 2.10 1.60 1.00
B-W Super T-10 2.64 2.10 1.46 1.00

GH

[GreenHornet]

In order to keep costs some what manageable I have to be very careful in my parts selection especially on the major components. The parts have to be easily attainable and priced reasonably. They also need to be durable and built to last but in the event a part fails it does not cost an arm and a leg to replace or rebuild. Ideally it would be nice to create a total system where you would not need to take it in to a mechanic but obviously this will depend on the individuals skill level and willingness to do his or her own maintenance. This will also most likely not be practical for the majority of people and hybrid component failure. So the hybrid components ideally for simplicity would come from one reputable manufacturer who can supply spare parts and provide product support.

I am trying to design this vehicle with just not my wants and desires in mind but also for others who may find a need for Tigon down the road. The plan at this point is to finish the prototype and test it thoroughly. After the testing is complete I will develop a design and build book so that others can replicate and modify Tigon. If there is a desire for Tigon beyond the prototype I may also provide finished turn key vehicles.

The main objective is to design and build a highly efficient diesel electric hybrid for North America. The main reason for this is we do not have this currently and will not at least in my lifetime here in North America! Are we going to get diesel electric hybrids? Yes we will but they will not be designed for range and economy on par with what we ecomodders would come to accept. This is where Tigon will fit in. Tigon is being designed as an ecomodders dream car. Tigon will have a coefficient of drag under .2, curb weight under 1,300lbs, manual transmission, .5L diesel engine, mild or full hybrid capability, parallel hybrid design platform, plug in option, normal creature comforts such as heat and AC stereo with mp3 and Ipod connection. I will also install back up cameras with audible sensors for safety as well as built in GPS for navigation.

As far as MPG ability I would estimate it at over 150mpg diesel only. this estimate comes from experience working with small diesel engines as well as with other notable small diesel engined designed vehicles that all attain 100+ mpg figures. All small 1L diesel engines have the fuel sipping ability to deliver 100+ mpg in a small light car now the mpg can sky rocket if attention to detail and careful planning is executed.

Adding the hybrid components now allows us many advantages not afforded in an ICE only vehicle. With hybrids we now have the ability to take control of our own fuel destiny. Hybrids can be powered right from the comforts of your home on local utility grid power which for me here in the Northwest is mostly clean hydro power! Or we can take it a step further and use solar power from our roof tops and create the ultimate clean and renewable fueling option. For me this is what appeals the most with hybrids as the vast majority of my driving is urban and typically less than 20miles a day. Even if my mileage was double say 40miles as long as the hybrid is designed to be plugged in you can easily extend your electric only range to accommodate the extra range. The main thing is with a hybrid I am giving myself fueling options one in which I have more control over and for me this is important and I think it is for others also.

Hybrid diesels do not need to be expensive upfront and that is one point with Tigon that I want to prove. What do I consider expensive may differ from others views most likely but I would like to think that any car that can give you fuel economy in excess of 150mpg is truly in a class of its own with few competitors and should be considered priceless really. Reality however and consumer reaction is totally objective and varies from person to person. My real world budget goal from a building cost perspective for the prototype is around 13K. This price however is without my time factored in and would be added if turn key vehicles were produced. If 13K can be realized and this at this point is a big if as there are still many pricing variables unaccounted for at the moment than a reasonably priced diesel electric hybrid with fuel economy design may be in the future for North American ecomodders that desire such a vehicle.

GH..

[GreenHornet]

What I know to this point:

The Spitfires if careful can be had for a relatively low price point and the GT6 are harder to come by but still out there. Parts are easy to find and at competitive pricing. So from the vehicle donor perspective the Triumph spit and GT6 are good cost effective options. Now we have to factor in customization costs for the Smart wheels, new aerodynamic body design, T5 transmission, new diesel engine, hybrid components, hybrid integration design and fabrication for the diesel engine power plant and transmission.

So far I have determined that a T5 transmission newly rebuilt by a shop goes for under $1,000. The materials for the aerodynamic body design will cost roughly $1,200. New Diesel engines costs under $2,000 delivered if you are willing to go the surplus route. However the costs can be well over $2,000 and even above $3,000 if you are picky with your diesel engine selection. For example one can usually find Yanmar and Kubota engines for under $2,000 however if you want a Lombardini or Kohler or even a Perkins good luck finding it under $3,000!

All of these engines will do the job so why be picky well for instance Yanmar sized engines run around 185lbs for one suitable for Tigon. While a comparably sized Caterpillar model only weighs 125lbs. Sixty pounds of weight loss with one simple component selection decision is hard to ignore. So is the price premium worth it for the Cat diesel engine model? If you are building a car only for you and money and time are not an issue than yes but if you are trying to also build for others in mind than maybe not so much it just depends really. Most likely I will initially go with the Yanmar despite the weight penalty to keep costs down.

The cost of the Hybrid components are still unknown to this point at least with the design architecture I have in mind for Tigon. If I wanted to go with a belt system like one you would find on a GM E-Assist vehicle then costs would be under $2,000. This is considered a mild system with small battery pack and not plug in capable. Now while this is an option it is not my first choice. I want my architecture to more mirror the Honda IMA system except offer more manual control and customization with plug in capability. I am thinking off the top of my head this could easily be in the $5K ballpark or almost half the total $13K budget. If the cost does turn out to be in this range than the initial $13K budget will be impossible to achieve most likely. The budget would than be more in the $16K ballpark which still is not bad considering what you have there!

Once I have all the hybrid component sourcing and integration costs determined then a more realistic cost can be figured out. I expect with in a few weeks to have hard numbers on the missing hybrid data which will be a big step for Tigon. I am currently working with a hybrid automotive manufacturer on the hybrid design and I can say we are getting very close to a final design and cost break down. So stay tuned as numbers as well as component pics will be available shortly.

GH..

[GreenHornet]

I was going to post this under the improving diesel engine efficiency thread but since I may be using this at some point for Tigon and it can be applied to any engine I figured it was more appropriate to post it here.

I have a friend who builds electric superchargers that are light weight and compact. While all engines can be outfitted with a supercharger diesels can benefit greatly from one since diesels truly love more air! The best part about this design unlike your traditional supercharger is that it is electrically driven independent of engine speeds so it is not robbing precious horsepower from the engine via belt and pulley. The electric Supercharger takes electric energy via an on board battery bank powered by a wall socket or even better from regenerative breaking
Using electricity is a much cheaper way of giving your car forced induction vs other methods such as Nitrous that is costly. It is also more efficient and can be applied to any engine regardless of its size. So that small .5L diesel I am using in Tigon can easily be fitted with this device so the worry of finding a Turbo that is small enough is no more!

Another advantage is the small brushless (BLDC) electric motor that powers the Ogura Supercharger can also be configured as a multi role accessory. The 18lb BLDC motor can replace the standard engine starter and alternator on the engine acting as an integrated starter alternator (ISA). This creates efficiency as using one part for multiple duties. It can also act as an electronic AC unit and be configured for engine start stop or no idle scenarios as well as regenerative breaking.

I have been considering this for my Tigon diesel hybrid for some time now and may very well utilize this technology.

Link = Low Voltage Electric Supercharger | eCycle, Inc.

Link =

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUO-pBdMWVQ

[GreenHornet]

One of the biggest drawbacks to AC is it robs the engine of HP. Another key drawback is that because its belt driven off the engine the engine has to be on for the car to utilize the AC. This technology does away with this inefficiency and inconvenience as now you can have AC whenever you like. Even when the engine is in stop and go traffic or at a long stop light the small BLDC motor ca be configured to shut down your car and allow the AC to still run. Then when the light turns green the BLDC motor will turn the engine back on as soon as you press on the gas pedal and you are off all without ever loosing AC in your car. So no more rolling down your window during a traffic jam Here is a link to the small BLDC motor AC system unit for any vehicle. This can also be applied to EV only vehicles.

No-Idle Air-Conditioning for Police Cars| eCycle, Inc.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by GreenHornet

However you get much more power boost from CNG than you would from Methanol/Water injection.

The boost you get, is also from the diesel burning better due to the presence of the more easily combusting CNG.

[GreenHornet]

Originally Posted by euromodder

The boost you get, is also from the diesel burning better due to the presence of the more easily combusting CNG.

Hey Euromodder and thanks for stopping by. Yes you are correct the higher octane rating of the CNG allows it to burn sooner thus helping the diesel combustion to burn more completely. This increases efficiency and also decreases harmful particulates being emitted. The problem with CNG is its expensive to set up in your vehicle currently as well as very bulky the tanks take up a lot of real estate under the hood which makes it tough for conversions in existing vehicles. The fuel itself here in the states is much lower but another problem is there are very few places to get it unlike gas or diesel. The best alternative and much cheaper option is Methanol which has the same effects and also has some of its own that help to compliment the diesel fueled car. Tigon will have a water/methanol injection system of my own design.

The main problem if you want to call it that is with the Methanol Injection I have to design my own because off the shelf systems are not designed for small industrial diesel engines. The majority of the injection systems need at least 50hp or you risk flooding your engine and seizing it up not good! The injectors are designed for high flow which are good for a large Cummings tractor diesel but a little Kubota engine will drown

GH

[GreenHornet]

Today I was beginning to figure out my shift points and rpm for optimum fuel efficiency as well as determining just how fast I can theoretically go with the little 2 cylinder unmodified in stock condition with my current proposed gearing.

So the Top speed is roughly 80mph estimated and that is granted I can hit my weight of roughly 1,200lbs and hit my drag coefficient of .18. This would require 9.12 HP to overcome air drag. Rolling resistance is 3.33
For a total of 12.45 HP to run 80 MPH. Factor in another 10% loss for good measure and you have 13.695HP. If I can obtain an even lower coefficient of drag say .14 then we are up over 85mph from a stock 2 cylinder .5L diesel

Proper gearing for these little small diesels can not be over looked. One must remember these little diesels like to be worked hard. The high output guys who run at 3,600rpm stock can max out at 3,800rpm unmodified. Tractor pullers have gotten them upwards of 6000rpm heavily modified. The trick is to run them in there sweet spot. So what is there sweet spot and how the heck do you begin to figure it out?

So what you need is the Performance data this will give you the BSFC or brake specific fuel consumption data along with the Torque curve and KW output all at a given RPM. This will clearly show you where the engine likes to be at for lowest fuel consumption and best range of torque.

The 2 cylinder Yanmar for example uses the least amount of fuel right at 1800rpm and puts out just under peek torque at this point in its rpm range. 1800rpm is only about half load or 50% of max 3600rpm. So when people say these little diesels like to run hard this can be misleading. You will think that you need to run it upwards of 3000rpm and this is simply not the case. The argument is that running it at higher rpm extends the life of the engine because engine gunk does not build up. While this may be true engine build up will not form at all at any engine load if you utilize a water/meth injection system effectively

Now 3600 rpm is not max rpm it is the nominal operating rpm. Max rpm is actually 3800 roughly stock so 1800rpm is actually 47.5% load. Now knowing that fuel consumed is proportional to power developed we need to know how much horsepower is used at 1800rpm. This figure will be in KW and we will also need to know the g/KWH usage which will be for the Yanmar around 256g.

Convert your 5.5kw to horsepower = 6.7hp

set up equation

6.7hp X .47.5% load X 256g = 0.814L = .21 gallons per hour

This figure is consistent with what we would see out of a diesel genset. As you can see if we can set up our shift points to stay around this 1800rpm range fuel economy will be extremely frugal. You could run 5 hours before going through 1 gallon of gas without any special driving techniques or any special engine mods.

Now at 6.7Hp what kind of mph range can we achieve?

60 MPH takes 3.85 HP to overcome air drag.
Rolling resistance is 2.50
For a total of 6.45 HP to run 60 MPH

My inputs for this estimate were:

Calculate HP For A Given Speed
Coefficient of Drag = .18
Frontal Area of Car = 14.9 Sq/Ft
Weight of Car = 1,200 Lbs
Velocity of Car = 60mph MPH

Link to calculator = Calculate HP For Speed

Now that we know we can go 60mph using only 6.45hp we can set up our gearing to take full advantage of this

Now if we look at our Yanmar 2TNV70 performance Data we can see that at roughly 1,750rpm all the way to 2,400rpm the fuel consumption stays right around 260g. This is what they refer to as the sweet spot! This gives us a nice window of opportunity to keep fuel consumption relatively low yet take full advantage of engine torque! If you notice even at 2,400rpm we are still very close to peak torque output for the tiny engine.

So during normal driving we want to keep the engine under 2400rpm at all costs essentially.

Fuel consumption for comparison sake at 2400rpm is:

10hp X .63% X 260g = 1.6L = .42gph

This power usage still puts us easily over 100mpg!

tire diameter used = 22.4 Smart car stock wheels with stock continental tires.
transmission gear = .63 (OD) 5th gear of T5 transmission
Rear gear differential = 3.27 stock GT6 differential

Engine Speed (RPM)
5000 RPM 161.74 MPH
4500 RPM 145.57 MPH
4000 RPM 129.39 MPH
3500 RPM 113.22 MPH
3000 RPM 97.04 MPH
2500 RPM 80.87 MPH
2000 RPM 64.70 MPH
1500 RPM 48.52 MPH
1000 RPM 32.35 MPH

Now you can see that at 2,500rpm we are at roughly 80.87mph and if you recall that our Yanmar has just enough HP to get us to the 80mph mark! With the right gearing we can achieve this at only 2,500rpm still way under max engine load. So anything under 80mph is going to give us exceptional fuel economy with the T5 gearing and Yanmar 2 cylinder engine

What I found interesting was just how much going from using 6.7hp to 10hp affected our fuel consumption from .21gph to .42gph

Moral of the story here is if you want incredible fuel economy you need to get all the pieces right. You not only need correct gearing, low curb weight, solid aerodynamics but most importantly you need to know and understand your engines BSFC and how to use it to your advantage!

Now just think what someone trained in eco driving techniques could do with the Tigon diesel only not to mention a fully hybridized model of Tigon. Fuel consumption would not even be on the charts