Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > DIY / How-to
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-30-2011, 12:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thumbs down

i know this is a fuel econ forum but as a certified mechanic youre asking for a blowout. theres gonna have to be a compromise between safety and fuel economy if you value your life and those around you.

i drive a jeep liberty and have already increased the mpg 3mpg city and 2mpg highway just by doing my own little bout of mods. in no way would i ever change the psi of my tires to other than what the factory recommends

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steveo126 For This Useful Post:
capnbass91 (04-30-2011)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-30-2011, 02:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
Bookworm
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Olympia
Posts: 127

Sylvio - '02 Audi allroad quattro Biturbo 6-spd
90 day: 21.08 mpg (US)

Focus - '17 Ford Focus SE
90 day: 45.64 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
List of fallacious argument techniques

(picks up a stick and sets about belaboring the cadaverous equine)



Again, please read the discussions on this topic. As with most dynamic systems, there is probably not going to be a simple blanket answer that applies in all situations, regardless whether it's issued by the manufacturer or anyone else.

As the Ford Explorer/Firestone debacle indicated, low pressures are probably more likely to lead to tire failure, crash, death & dismemberment, than are high pressures.

Running the manufacturer's recommended pressure will only optimize one thing: your ability to blame the manufacturer if something goes wrong.

For best economy or smoothest ride or longest tire wear or "safety" (best handling on snow? Best handling (turning or braking?) on dry pavement? Best wet traction? Best impact resistance? Best heat resistance?) it's very unlikely that any single pressure will be optimal.
__________________


Invalid argument techniques to watch for.
'48 C170
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fjasper For This Useful Post:
some_other_dave (05-02-2011)
Old 04-30-2011, 05:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,634

GasDwarf - '13 Volkswagen up! EcoFuel CNG
Thanks: 173
Thanked 611 Times in 486 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo126 View Post
i know this is a fuel econ forum but as a certified mechanic youre asking for a blowout. theres gonna have to be a compromise between safety and fuel economy if you value your life and those around you.
Certainly.
But the rated max. psi is what the tyres are constructed and certified for.

Quote:
in no way would i ever change the psi of my tires to other than what the factory recommends
Well, on my Volvo those recommendations are blatantly wrong.

The recommended pressure for light loads - 2.3bar / 33psi - is way too low, leading to increased tyre wear on the shoulders, tramlining and an uncertain feel to the steering.
Originally, I started increasing the pressure to cure these handling and wear issues, as recommended by some folks on a car forum.
That brought me to 41 psi - still having the uneven wear issue, though reduced.

After joining ecomodder, I increased the pressure to sidewall max, 51 psi.
Guess what, the uneven wear is gone.
No alignment work has been done on the car.


I probably picked up a rubber fetish in my motorcycling years, as I fairly often feel the tyre temperature when checking them for signs of wear.
With the increased pressure and hypermiling, the tyres are a lot cooler than they used to be at lower pressures.
Yes, so much cooler that you can actually, unscientifically, feel it ...
__________________
GasDwarf's fuel consumption :
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 06:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
just because you can do it doesnt mean its the smartest thing to do. like with many things on cars, the optimal tire pressure is what the factory writes on the inside of the b-pillar near the drivers seat. the recommended tire inflation chart there (for my libby, its 33psi all around) is the best compromise between safety, ride comfort, handling, and fuel economy. its posted at that number because psi fluctuates and the rec. pressure is the middle ground for that. to say that its purely put there so you can blame the manufacturer is one of the most absurd statements ive heard in a while. NO company wants to take the blame for someones mistakes so they put that there to avoid conflict and do everything they can to not be liable.

think about it this way:

youre not saving enough money from overinflating ur rubbers to offset the medical expenses when they blow out and you hit another car.

and believe me, im all for this website and the message it advocates (maximizing the efficiency of your vehicle) but i draw the line at risking my life and others around me
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 08:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vskid3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 948

Civic DX (sold) - '97 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 34.15 mpg (US)

GTO (sold) - '04 Pontiac GTO
90 day: 22.62 mpg (US)

Green Brick (sold) - '06 Ford Escape Hybrid
90 day: 31.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 291 Times in 208 Posts
If I have a tire blow out by running it at the sidewall max, then I'm going after the tire manufacturer. Going above the max is where it gets sketchy, but at the max, if you have a problem, it is probably from a defective tire. It says "max", not "max, but you'll probably have a blowout".

I run 44psi in my 44psi max sidewall tires, no problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2011, 10:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 403

Sweetie - '11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
90 day: 39.35 mpg (US)

My Miles - '03 Combo GLS/KLX/Ninja
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)

Sipper' - '04 Kawasaki Ninja 250
90 day: 74.98 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts
I think there is plenty of data on this site, as well as others, to conclude it not only can be done safely, but IS being done safely by many, with benefits of increased tire wear, increased tire life, better hydroplaning resistance and better mileage.

The increase in harshness of ride only shows that the majority of vehicles on the road have suspension that is horribly calibrated, ie- CHEAP.
Some Penske's or Ohlins would help the ride immensely.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 06:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,634

GasDwarf - '13 Volkswagen up! EcoFuel CNG
Thanks: 173
Thanked 611 Times in 486 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo126 View Post
like with many things on cars, the optimal tire pressure is what the factory writes on the inside of the b-pillar near the drivers seat.
No, it is not optimal.
Then again, neither is running sidewall max on my car/tyre combination, as the ride is fairly harsh on an unloaden car.

Having increased the pressure gradually, I'd say 3bar / 43.5 psi is the optimum instead of 2.3bar / 33.5psi on my car.
It retains most of the comfort, yet returns good mileage.


Chances are good you'll get to see increases in the recommended pressures over the coming years as fuel efficiency becomes a more pressing need.
It's an easy win.


Quote:
its posted at that number because psi fluctuates and the rec. pressure is the middle ground for that.
Actually, the (cold) pressure rating takes into account that the tyre will heat up during use.
Hypermiling, your tyres won't heat up much.


Quote:
youre not saving enough money from overinflating ur rubbers to offset the medical expenses when they blow out and you hit another car.
Using rated max is not overinflating the tyres.
Tyres seldom blow out because of too high pressure.

Typically, they blow out at low pressure as soft tyres heat up a lot more than when properly or higher inflated; sidewall deformations are far bigger @ low pressure, and can lead to structural failure of the tyre's core.


Quote:
i draw the line at risking my life and others around me
Same here.
__________________
GasDwarf's fuel consumption :
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2011, 09:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,018 Times in 1,302 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo126 View Post
just because you can do it doesnt mean its the smartest thing to do. like with many things on cars, the optimal tire pressure is what the factory writes on the inside of the b-pillar near the drivers seat. the recommended tire inflation chart there (for my libby, its 33psi all around) is the best compromise between safety, ride comfort, handling, and fuel economy. its posted at that number because psi fluctuates and the rec. pressure is the middle ground for that. to say that its purely put there so you can blame the manufacturer is one of the most absurd statements ive heard in a while. NO company wants to take the blame for someones mistakes so they put that there to avoid conflict and do everything they can to not be liable.

think about it this way:

youre not saving enough money from overinflating ur rubbers to offset the medical expenses when they blow out and you hit another car.

and believe me, im all for this website and the message it advocates (maximizing the efficiency of your vehicle) but i draw the line at risking my life and others around me
At 24,000 miles on the Michelin X replacement tires on my Civic VX, the tread wear measured 5% of the available tread. Wear was even across the tread and I even drove them on ice with that pressure and survived.
That was at 44 PSI, the same pressure I have my current tires on my Altima.
If you check previous threads or the net in general, a lot of Police forces use similar pressures and if you are carrying a maximum load the pressure recommendations are higher in some cases. I have heard of tires lasting over 100k miles when driven the way hyper milers do with sidewall max pressures.

Try measuring your coasting distance, then try it with sidewall max pressure. I have driven over 70k miles with tires at sidewall max without any issues, and I will continue to do so because it lowers heat retention, increases tire life, saves gas, and does not significantly affect handling. In fact it may improve it, in case I ever need to use the maximum capability.

regards
Mech

regards
Mech

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Top 5 most fuel efficient tires (Lowest Rolling resistance: LRR) blackjackel General Efficiency Discussion 144 01-25-2016 11:39 PM
Discussion on tire efficiency Ernie Rogers General Efficiency Discussion 69 12-27-2014 01:17 PM
"Inflation pressure does not affect grip": Autospeed article. orange4boy EcoModding Central 158 05-06-2010 03:29 PM
Need report refs for tire pressure benefits Ernie Rogers EcoModding Central 7 04-20-2010 01:31 PM
Tire pressure (of winter tires) tasdrouille General Efficiency Discussion 20 08-12-2009 01:38 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com