Toyota FCV concept - an odd car aerodynamically

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Vman455

If memory serves, BMW were the first--only they called them "air curtains." It seems like they're popping up everywhere these days...............

Yesterday I found a ecomodder forum thread from 2010 in which Kia was doing a lot of air curtain/air fence designs.

I cannot seem to find it today.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Not entirely in my opinion, but most certainly part of the story.

Both Ferrari and Porsche have been using pronounced front corner intakes (dual/split radiator) for at least 15 years.

Intimation is a from of flattery, right?

I'd like to separate out the air fence look from the dual radiator look discussion wise.

Ferrari 458 video - active aero

I think marketing wise BMW was the first to promote "Air Fences".

From the video(thanks!),it seems like the premise of the exotic aero features is primarily high-speed stability with the least drag penalty.But emphasis on keeping the driver safe and alive at what would be extra-legal speeds in most places.It's very considerate.
For fuel economy,I suspect that what basjoos has done with AeroCivic would remain a benchmark.
I finished off Goro Tamai's book,and all the super-low-drag solar racers had fully-enclosed and faired wheels.GM's Sunraycer,which GM's Aero Lab website reports at Cd 0.147 ( as raced),according to Bart Hibb's reference, came in at Cd 0.117- 0.103 with the full wheel fairing suite installed,at full-scale.These are the kinds of numbers Hucho says are waiting for us.
The Cambridge University 2013 CUER eco racer,which is kind of a skinny version of Sunraycer was reported at Cd 0.11.Pretty tasty!
If,however,enclosed front wheels are deemed 'impractical',these fences or curtains would be,in the words of the late Bob Parsons, "way out ahead of nothin'."

[jeff88]

Does anybody know if this is a working vent or styling aesthetic? It is the vent on the quarter panel, just under the integrated mirror.



If it is a working vent, does it make sense aerodynamically for the air to exit there?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by jeff88

Does anybody know if this is a working vent or styling aesthetic? It is the vent on the quarter panel, just under the integrated mirror.



If it is a working vent, does it make sense aerodynamically for the air to exit there?

*It looks like it is non-porous and just an aesthetic treatment.
*If it was 'open',it is near the A-pillars,which a very low pressure area,so extraction would be good.However,as constructed,would cause a jet,upsetting flow.
*Better to have internal ducting so as to allow the flow to exit parallel to the side of the car,and at the same velocity as the local flow,as Morelli work on at Pininfarina.

[jeff88]

So you're saying the outlet would be too perpendicular to the flow around the car? So something similar to the integrated mirror would be better, where the 'ducting' of the mirror channel would force the air to exit more parallel with the flow around the car?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by jeff88

So you're saying the outlet would be too perpendicular to the flow around the car? So something similar to the integrated mirror would be better, where the 'ducting' of the mirror channel would force the air to exit more parallel with the flow around the car?

Yes.Air would erupt out the vent like a sideways whale/dolphin plume,interfering with the flow there,causing interference drag.
The 1982 Pontiac Trans Am Firebird's side extractor vents did this enough to increase drag.They were left on the car.
Morelli sweated these extractors out in the Pinifarina tunnel,finally getting all four to discharge parallel and at the exact velocity of the local flow.It's probably one of the lowest drag cooling systems ever constructed.If you fish around enough you'll find some photos of these extractors.This is what you'd want to use as a benchmark.
I'd need additional views of the mirror channel setup to make a more intelligent appraisal of what was done.

[some_other_dave]

The mirrors remind me a little bit of the 1st-gen (?) Ford Probe's.



-soD

[jeff88]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Morelli sweated these extractors out in the Pinifarina tunnel,finally getting all four to discharge parallel and at the exact velocity of the local flow.It's probably one of the lowest drag cooling systems ever constructed.If you fish around enough you'll find some photos of these extractors.This is what you'd want to use as a benchmark.

Is this what you're talking about, with the two "grills" on the front bumper?

I could see how they are lower drag, instead of a brick wall like most radiator grills, it is swept back slightly. But where does the air exit?

[kach22i]

This?
has anyone tried to install fender air extractors on a plain firebird?

They used wind tunnels when they developed those parts, they do function. How much will it help a daily driver is debatable, and drag racing its not going to help at all. Autocrossing or other types of racing though it could make a difference.

[gone-ot]

FWIW, the "new" StingRay Corvette as such 'vents' all over it's body...supposedly for better aero and downforce, but they DO look sporatically located.