We need ultra light four wheeled cars

[samwichse]

https://p50cars.com/?fbclid=IwAR0_oq...BU5vPL_Xd3xh5U

Not a 4-wheeler, but apparently this is happening...

[freebeard]

Famously TV presenter Jeremy Clarkson drove a 1963 P50 through the BBC right up to his desk. It’s fame & rarity means cars often sell for over $170,000!

Maybe the one Clarkson rolled (repeatedly). But often?

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

I got a new “leftover” $46,000 2013 volt premium in Nov 2014

Around end of 2013 onward folks were getting major deals on new Volts (if they were willing to wait 6 months)

Early adopters always get hosed, very similar to Leafs

The Gen IIs have not had nearly the level of discounts that Gen I enjoyed, might be its a more popular 5 seat model? Or maybe just Because it’s priced more reasonably in the first place?

Not sure but there were countless threads with folks posting their deal back when I was actively trying to get a Volt, the deals posted lately are less killer.

So Chevy had to sell a 50k car for 18k new to move it and you question why they killed it?

[niky]

Toyota subsidized the Prius for a generation or two before it started making them back money.

They milked it for all the marketing mileage they could.

GM could have kept the Volt going.

But only if it were a crossover instead of a car.

[redpoint5]

That's exactly what some of us are getting at; the Volt is dead as the Volt. The technology will live on in more profitable platforms. Hybrids on smaller cars don't make as much sense as larger vehicles anyhow. The heavier the vehicle, the more sense there is in making it hybrid.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Hybrids on smaller cars don't make as much sense as larger vehicles anyhow. The heavier the vehicle, the more sense there is in making it hybrid.

Either the hardware will be downsized enough to become cost-effective on cheaper econoboxes, or hybrid systems will have their cost-penalty atenuated in vehicles with a presumably higher added value. I see it more on a cost basis than tied to the size of vehicles.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I see it more on a cost basis than tied to the size of vehicles.

I see that point too, but then there does tend to be a relationship between size and cost as well.

There are diminishing returns on hybrid technology and weight though. The Edison 2 was gas only because it was so lightweight that creating a hybrid drivetrain couldn't justify the cost and added weight. Others on this site report getting just about the same fuel economy in a Gen I Insight with the EV portion of the system disabled.

The heavier something is, the more advantageous to supplement acceleration with an electric motor. The heavier the vehicle, the more advantageous it is to recapture that kinetic energy when slowing down.

All that said, the battery is the achilles heel of hybrids and EVs, so that likely explains why smaller vehicles and smaller batteries were engineered first.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

That's exactly what some of us are getting at; the Volt is dead as the Volt. The technology will live on in more profitable platforms. Hybrids on smaller cars don't make as much sense as larger vehicles anyhow. The heavier the vehicle, the more sense there is in making it hybrid.

Of course the first hybirds from GM and Chrysler were on the largest SUVs they made the Tahoe/ Escalade, and Durango/ Aspen. That was actually a great system, it could do pure electric to a pretty high speed, and if you added a bigger modern battery from today vs 11-12 years ago you probably would have a solid plug in hybrid out of it. Chevy even ran their motor in an Atkinson cycle and added active aero and a few other things. The Chrysler used the same transmission/electric motor as the Chevy but otherwise was unchanged from a regular Hemi Durango/Aspen. So take that transmission today, put it on a redesigned aluminum bodied Tahoe that weighs 800 pounds less than in 2009, use the new turbo 4 cylinder motor (or better yet the new inline 6 3.0:diesel) and add a nice battery pack.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

So Chevy had to sell a 50k car for 18k new to move it and you question why they killed it?

Every brand new Chevy I have picked up for nearly half MSRP

My father got a new diesel Chevy pickup half price in the 80’s
He got a tdi Automatic half price in 2004
I got my new Cobalt nearly half price
Then the Volt

Now I’m looking at either a $2500 PIP or a $9999 BMW I3 Rex to replace the Cobalt as a second car, it’s not new but the BMW was a $60,000 car, sadly I can’t justify the inevitable BMW priced repairs.


Anyway
I think it’s their business model, early adopters pay full price and then some, those who wait, nag and haggle get killer deals on what’s left over
Key is to be patient, not need credit, know how and when to haggle
And not have your heart set on any particular options or even model.


I do remember some friends getting half price Ford F150’s circa 2008, so I don’t think it’s a particular vehicle that gets the deals.
Lots of brand new $7000 Mirages every year as well.


If I was interested in a truck I bet I could get a new one half price again but none of those models much interest me.

[Hersbird]

I think 1/2 msrp is stretching it for any of the big 3 's pickups brand new. 20% off sure, 25% maybe, but no way 50%.