What will come first; secession, single-payer or total elimination of ICE?

[freebeard]

Oooooh, methane

futurism.com:Elon Musk: SpaceX’s “BFR” Rocket Will Do More Than Take Us to Mars

You will be half-way around the planet in 1/2 hour on liquid methane and liquid oxygen.

[niky]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Neither is bad, if done in moderation. The problem is when people use them immoderately. But as far as I can tell, that's a personal problem: there are people who will always do something immoderately, whether it's booze, religion, or collecting Beanie Babies.

There's some evidence that moderate amounts of alcohol actually has a positive effects on health, while marijuana and other drugs can be used to treat various medical conditions.

Marijuana is by far the "safest" psychoactive substance you can partake of. Both physiologically and psychologically.

Alcohol is tres dangerous. It's just too easy to make and too difficult to regulate.

And yes, addiction is often down to psychological issues and social supports. Happy, well adjusted people with adequate support systems aren't as in danger of getting hopelessly hooked on drugs/alcohol as those who are in a stressful environment.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by niky

Alcohol is tres dangerous. It's just too easy to make and too difficult to regulate.

People - the majority of humanity - have been drinking alcoholic drinks for basically all of history. Wine dates back at least 6000 years - Earliest Known Winery Found in Armenian Cave - beer about the same - Concise Timetable of Beer History. - and the oldest there's evidence for, a sort of mead, around 9000: http://www.history.com/news/ask-hist...-invented-beer The world hasn't ended yet.

The ease of manufacture and difficulty of regulation are positives. See for instance the US insane Prohibition experiment.

[JockoT]

Incest has also been going on for all of known history. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[gone-ot]

Humankind: The GOOD, the BAD, and the UGLY.

[oil pan 4]

Alcohol made the water safe to drink with out boiling it.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

The ease of manufacture and difficulty of regulation are positives. See for instance the US insane Prohibition experiment.

What's even worse:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion

The Whiskey Rebellion demonstrated that the new national government had the will and ability to suppress violent resistance to its laws, though the whiskey excise remained difficult to collect. The events contributed to the formation of political parties in the United States, a process already underway. The whiskey tax was repealed in the early 1800s during the Jefferson administration.

That 'every man a king' stuff only lasted a few years. We've been running on fumes ever since and it's getting a little thin. Collapsing people's moral compass onto a one-dimensional political spectrum.

[oil pan 4]

Isn't "every man lives like a king" a communist selling point?

[freebeard]

Isn't that 'every man a peasant'? Personal sovereignty is a product of the Enlightenment, not Marxist collectivism.

...and 'lives like' is equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Alcohol made the water safe to drink with out boiling it.

"There is intelligence in wine, strenght in beer, bacteria in water", like the Germans used to say