What would you pay for a 100mpg Diesel electric Hybrid?

[ciderbarrel]

Originally Posted by GreenHornet

Hey Ciderbarrel,

From my experiences most people rarely keep there car more than 5 years these days here in the US. So you would most definitely be an exception!

I don't know anyone with a new car.

My GF has a 05 VW Jetta, I have had my 05 Mustang for 2 years now, kept my Saturn for 10 years, I still have my 03 Durango (on long term loan to my brother), I have friends with: 97 Corolla, 05 Saturn VUE, 01 F-150, 06 Elantra, a chevy Cavalier, 95 Mustang...Here in the DC area, we keep them forever which jives with all the articles I've been reading about how people are keeping their cars longer because of the economy.

On my motorcycle ride through the rural parts of my county, I was in Damascus, MD last night. Talk about old cars. Saw tons of 70s Camaros, 90s mustangs, 80s 3-series BMWs, 90s/2000s Civic hatches and tons of pimp-mobiles...some were even in good shape

[GreenHornet]

Originally Posted by Miller88

Mazda's Skyactiv-D engine is able to meet the requirements WITHOUT urea injection. They do it by using low compression.

Yes Mazda has a unique approach in reducing the compression ratio of the diesel engine. However fuel economy does suffer with this strategy. Mazda tries to overcome this shortfall by utilizing a dual stage turbo. My guess is it still will not have better fuel economy as a result.

Still the best way to get around the Urea Injection is to use a smaller diesel or downsize the power plant in combination with water and or methanol injection. These are proven strategies that will save you money and clean up your particulate output without reinventing the world

[GreenHornet]

Originally Posted by ciderbarrel

I don't know anyone with a new car.

My GF has a 05 VW Jetta, I have had my 05 Mustang for 2 years now, kept my Saturn for 10 years, I still have my 03 Durango (on long term loan to my brother), I have friends with: 97 Corolla, 05 Saturn VUE, 01 F-150, 06 Elantra, a chevy Cavalier, 95 Mustang...Here in the DC area, we keep them forever which jives with all the articles I've been reading about how people are keeping their cars longer because of the economy.

On my motorcycle ride through the rural parts of my county, I was in Damascus, MD last night. Talk about old cars. Saw tons of 70s Camaros, 90s mustangs, 80s 3-series BMWs, 90s/2000s Civic hatches and tons of pimp-mobiles...some were even in good shape

Ya I agree with you I think overall the past 5 years people have kept there cars for longer. Car sales were down through out much of the industry and many small places went out of business across the nation. This past year there has most definitely been more action than in the last 5 years combined it seems. Don't take that literally it just seems that way to many in the industry. Not sure if that is due to the economy starting to pick up or what?

Anyways Cider I personally don't buy new either I will let the other guy take the instant depreciation we all know is coming the second you drive it off the lot

It is amazing to me how things in the past 20 years have sky rocketed in cost not just vehicles! I am really worried for my kids in another 20 years they will not be able to afford anything it seems.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by GreenHornet

Yes Mazda has a unique approach in reducing the compression ratio of the diesel engine. However fuel economy does suffer with this strategy. Mazda tries to overcome this shortfall by utilizing a dual stage turbo. My guess is it still will not have better fuel economy as a result.

Still the best way to get around the Urea Injection is to use a smaller diesel or downsize the power plant in combination with water and or methanol injection. These are proven strategies that will save you money and clean up your particulate output without reinventing the world

Mazda claims that the lower compression increases the efficiency, since it leads the combustion to start closer to the center of the combustion chamber. The dual-stage provides a more homogeneous air pressure through all the RPM bands. Water/methanol injection acts like a chemical intercooler...

[ciderbarrel]

Originally Posted by GreenHornet

Anyways Cider I personally don't buy new either I will let the other guy take the instant depreciation we all know is coming the second you drive it off the lot

Amen brother.

Every car I listed , except for the chevy, was bought new. My best friend bought his 1st, and only, car in 1997. That Corolla has over 125k miles, burns through oil every 3 months, but he refuses to give it up. He and his wife just bought a new house, so it's not like they don't have money. He just loves his car.

[payne171]

Yeah yeah. New cars don't make monetary sense. Neither do hybrids. But somebody has to buy them or there are no used cars. And round and round we go. I bought a 2000 Insight used. The money I have saved on fuel (~$90 per month) is more than half of my car payment, so I am happy. We all want cars to be more fuel efficient, but we balk when the technology costs more money than it saves us. That sends the message to the auto manufacturers that it isn't worth their trouble to make more efficient vehicles. I can't say I blame buyers for not wanting to spend extra for fuel economy when it doesn't save them any money overall, but then I don't blame the manufacturers for not building them either.

[RedDevil]

Seems like Vekke's project is right on the money for this one, as his goal easily beats the 100 mpg mark. It is not a hybrid, but it doesn't need to be. I think that setup would stay within the 25K$ mark with room to spare.
Thumbs up for Vekke !

Need more space? An Audi A2 might do the trick, that came in a 3L/100km version too. Add hybrid support & disney dust, who knows...

[GreenHornet]

Ya I think Vekke's Lupo will be pretty cool when he is done with it. However he has some big work to do in order to get that platform to reach 2L fuel consumption. The Lupo has a drag of .29 and at 1,885 lbs I think it will be tough to reduce weight while drastically improving aerodynamics. I hope he can do it but the odds are not in his favor. I am all for what he is doing I wish more people would experiment like he is doing with those cars. Now if he had the .8L TDI I think he would have a much better shot at it. As efficient as the 1.2L is it still uses quite a bit more fuel than a smaller displacement .8L would. Good point on this one RedDevil about not really needing the hybrid components. I think once you start to get up to and over 100mpg it does start to make you wonder if its worth the added costs and complexity.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by GreenHornet

Now if he had the .8L TDI I think he would have a much better shot at it. As efficient as the 1.2L is it still uses quite a bit more fuel than a smaller displacement .8L would.

And also there would be less internal frictions due to the 2-cylinder layout. Well, nowadays with all that downsizing trend, I wish Volkswagen would release a 1.0L 2-banger based on its 2.0TDI, that would be a reasonable option for the Up and the Polo...