White Gnat exceeds 600 miles on a tank

[elhigh]

Seriously challenging the rationale behind purchasing new hybrid cars. Better mileage, less poisonous battery chemistry, simpler overall, fully paid for. That's tough to beat no matter how you slice it.

[California98Civic]

Wow!

[wmjinman]

Originally Posted by elhigh

Seriously challenging the rationale behind purchasing new hybrid cars. Better mileage, less poisonous battery chemistry, simpler overall, fully paid for. That's tough to beat no matter how you slice it.

I think similar thoughts. Whenever a Prius passes me, especially one driving NOT like a hypermiler, I think, "SUCKER!!!!" heh, heh, heh....

Some day, if I can ever start hitting 70 mpg on a regular basis, I've thought of getting a bumper sticker made that says something like, "70 MPG - Priuses are gas hogs". That thought originally came about when I started hearing about the Aptera, an extreme aero hybrid that was supposed to get something insane like 125 mpg. I thought that bumper sticker would be great on one of those.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by elhigh

Seriously challenging the rationale behind purchasing new hybrid cars. Better mileage, less poisonous battery chemistry, simpler overall, fully paid for. That's tough to beat no matter how you slice it.

Not that poisonous (it depends on type of course), and it should be recycled anyway.
Having the battery allows the engine to be smaller and still get acceptable performance. I've driven my car with the battery switched off; it makes a big difference.

Todays hybrids are way heavier than the Swift. The only hybrid that was as light gets even better economy.
But even my 'heavy' second gen can easily get 55 mpg at 55 mph; I do that all the time as 75% of my commute is highway. It is the cold starts and city traffic that kill my economy.

Don't defame hybrid technology just because you can get really good economy without it. It really works, but Wmjinman is doing an exceptionally good job...!

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by wmjinman

Just finished my second consecutive tank that took me over 700 miles - 707.5 to be exact with this one - the farthest ever. Also the most gas needed to fill it - 11.87 gallons. That works out to 59.68 mpg. Not the 60+ I like to see, but I'll still take it!!!

Congrats. I never made it past 689.1 mi in my festiva, mostly due to the 10gallon tank. Nice work

[elhigh]

[QUOTE=RedDevil;418222]Not that poisonous (it depends on type of course), and it should be recycled anyway.
Having the battery allows the engine to be smaller and still get acceptable performance. I've driven my car with the battery switched off; it makes a big difference.QUOTE]

I don't mean less toxic, I just mean less of it. It isn't like a lead-acid battery is that great for the environment either. But my L-A under the hood weighs less than half what the IMA battery does.

I'm not knocking hybrids at all - I have one, after all - I just think it would have been great if the auto industry could have leaned heavily in the direction of the Swift/Metro, Festiva and Golf paradigm and less toward, f'rinstance, Foresters and Suburbans.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

[RedDevil]

True.
About small cars...
Actually the auto industry has put a lot of energy in producing light, small and very cheap cars. 30% of all new car sales in Holland is in the smallest category: Peugeot 107/Toyota Aygo/Citroen C1, VW Up!/etc, Hyundai I10, Chevy Spark.
Apparently we want cars like that, and the USA does not?

But the small cars do rather poorly on economy.
They are used to bring the kids to school and for shopping in town. Short trips, lots of stop and go traffic.
I know I can take It to work and get at least twice as many miles per tank, about the same as the Red Devil does. But the latter is much more convenient on the highway while It is easier to park in the undersized parking slots over here, so my wife prefers that.

Once again the way you drive it has an enormous impact on economy. I could beat It's FE in almost anything.
Then again, if you have to do the school run, it is better to do it in a light car. But the savings are not that spectacular.

[wmjinman]

Oh, I'm not really "anti hybrid" at all. In fact, I'd love to have a first generation Insight and would constantly be trying to get over 100 mpg with it. But my gripe - if you wanna call it that - is these people who think they're so smart, and just because they drive a Prius, they are special, and superior, and saving the world and all - - - - but still drive like the typical jerk on the road, swerving into the next lane to pass me, then slam on the brakes to stop at the red light that was already yellow back when they were doing the aggressive pass, etc. I just look at those guys and think, "I'll bet I'm getting better mpg than you right now - with your fancy new hybrid and all..."

In the hands of a hypermiler (or even a moderately conscientious driver), a hybrid is a beautiful thing. - and I'm extremely envious of their regenerative braking, which to me, is the most brilliant part of the whole concept. I keep trying to think of some way to hang a belt & pulley with a generator to a wheel on my gnat to rig up a "redneck regen braking system", but don't seem to have the brainpower to come up with what seems like a good plan, even to me!!!

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by wmjinman

...is these people who think they're so smart, and just because they drive a Prius, they are special, and superior, and saving the world and all - - - - but still drive like the typical jerk on the road, swerving into the next lane to pass me, then slam on the brakes to stop at the red light that was already yellow back when they were doing the aggressive pass, etc.

Totally with you there. Those are the kinds of folks for whom hybrids were invented in the first place, the ones who don't think about how they drive. A hybrid can go a long way toward mediating their bad habits. The fact that a hybrid can reward careful, insightful drivers is like an Easter egg with a $100 bill inside, a greater return on the effort than was anticipated.

[wmjinman]

That's a good point. For those who accelerate more than they might need to, the hybrid electric boost helps, then when they don't start slowing as soon a they can, the regenerative braking can recover some of the energy that would otherwise be thrown away. And of course, shutting off the gas engine when idling, etc. So yeah - for a person who does not drive like a hypermiler, probably the hybrid helps "correct" their inefficient driving style.

One thing I've often wondered about, because I've never even driven a hybrid, is how much (intentional) drag the regenerative braking creates. Is is substantial? Is it comparable to downshifting? Maybe I should go to a Honda dealership or used car lot some day and test drive a hybrid, huh?

Like I say, I would LOVE to have a first gen Insight. I'm totally jealous of what MetroMPG got with his boattail mod - 119 mpg or something? Yeah - insane!!!