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Old 03-21-2013, 10:48 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
After-treatment systems became really over-complicated
I would say a diesel aftertreatment system costs as much (if not more than) a hybrid system. It is also 1000 times more trouble prone.

BUT...a necessary evil. Keeps emissions down and keeps trucks in my shop.

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Old 03-21-2013, 06:01 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I guess it depends on to what extent you are going eco.

I know a lot of guys on the geo forum like to compare how they are greener than prius owners with a 13-23 year old vehicle and many need to be rushed to the er as they twist their shoulder out of socket patting themselves on the back for such an accomplishment when in fact their car produces more emissions.

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Volkswagen TDI and some French engines, most notably from Renault, still work reasonably with vegetable oil conversions. I know it's illegal
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:28 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Euromodder,
The alternative is the M-TDI you get the best of both worlds! The M-TDI you will see on the 1.9L and 1.6L TD.They are popular with conversions and dune buggies since there is no need for all the electronic control stuff!
The early TDIs and certainly the 1.6 TD are what I consider to be old skool
You hardly see those anymore, around where I live.
Indirect diesel injection well, that's more like the start of the dino-era ...

I can see why they're popular for biodiesel conversions, but they're a long shot from the TDI you would buy new today ...

They were already very efficient as they were.
60mpg was possible - without going extreme.

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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
After-treatment systems became really over-complicated, at a certain point that some Diesel users and enthusiasts started to question their real effectiveness regarding the overall operational footprint of a vehicle fitted with them.
Absolutely so - on both accounts.

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Volkswagen TDI and some French engines, most notably from Renault, still work reasonably with vegetable oil conversions. I know it's illegal, but some actually have the DPF removed and the EGR bypassed to work better with vegetable oil...
There you have it - in order to make it work, all the after-treatment equipment is removed.
Even then, you can have trouble - like biodiesel attacking the fuel lines, the seals in the pump(s).

I had been reading up on using 100% biodiesel in PSA (Peugeot/Citroen) HDI engines - it works in the short run, after swapping a couple of fuel filters, but gets expensive in the long run when your HP pump gives up due to failing seals.

My DPF was shot anyway, so I didn't have to worry about the oil or biodiesel ruining it anymore.
I'd simply swap a cheap oil more often, and burn the fuel-diluted oil - throw it gradually back in the fuel , making some sort of twostroke hybrid dino/bio diesel fuel
A gallon / 6000 miles is easily mixed into over 100 gal of fuel.
Well, that was the plan ...

But the V50 developed too many other issues, so this piece of misery is going to the wrecker - to be part-Xed.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:34 PM   #104 (permalink)
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To use pure vegetable oils, I wouldn't mind to overhaul the injector pump and eventually replace all its gaskets and seals to reduce the risks.


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Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
I would say a diesel aftertreatment system costs as much (if not more than) a hybrid system. It is also 1000 times more trouble prone.
Diesel aftertreatment systems are still cheaper to manufacture than a hybrid driveline, altough they're really a few times more trouble-prone


Quote:
BUT...a necessary evil. Keeps emissions down and keeps trucks in my shop.
Actually, taking into account the higher fuel consumption, the requirement for the DEF and all the footprint of an enhancement in oil drilling, refining and its logistics until it reaches the refuelling station, and also all the production chain of the DEF, it makes me quite skeptical about the effectiveness of those aftertreatment systems...
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:53 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
Diesel technology is more expensive, and Toyota had to cut corners somewhere.
I also had the same diesel question and concluded the same answer.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:35 PM   #106 (permalink)
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I also had the same diesel question and concluded the same answer.
But then they went and made an Atkinson cycle engine, whilst they had the D4-D engine(s) ready to go.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:56 PM   #107 (permalink)
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But then they went and made an Atkinson cycle engine, whilst they had the D4-D engine(s) ready to go.
It was never a real Atkinson-cycle engine, it was just a cheap workaround into the valvetrain of a regular Otto-cycle gasser, remaining cheaper than a comparable Diesel.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:10 AM   #108 (permalink)
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D4-Ds were already being made though, no development costs, time or testing needed. Chain cam too, no belts
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:31 AM   #109 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
D4-Ds were already being made though, no development costs, time or testing needed. Chain cam too, no belts
I remember the 2C engine was still prevalent in Diesel-powered Corollas when the first Prius was released. It's still available brand-new in Paraguay, not sure about its current availability in Uruguay, but was still more expensive than a gasser Corolla. Diesels still have a higher price tag than a gasser counterpart, altough a Diesel with a conventional driveline is less expensive than a hybrid gasser.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:14 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Diesel engines built by Toyota are pretty good? I remember in the 70s when the big 3 reused their big blocks with little modifications to make a diesel engine, but they were some doozies on the road. I was glad to see Dog to go with Cummins and some of the bigger Chevy or GM trucks goto Cat for their larger truck engines.

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