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Old 02-02-2009, 01:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I doubt people are as farsighted as the guy in the video (but I agree with his logical breakdown - which is nothing new really, but nice to see him paint it out for the skeptics) but maybe I'm wrong or just overly cynical.

I'm "green" because I hate waste. I don't care for the extremism either way or the assumptions that people latch onto as "truths", when they don't know the difference between those and testable hypotheses or verifiable facts.

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
Vwbeamer and jamesqf -

I am basically one of the people you detest. On one hand I don't really care about nature; I'm not pining to camp or hike or spend time enjoying it's timeless beauty. On the other hand I recognize the reasons to preserve the environment for you, me, and future generations. From my POV, it is rational to look for *sustainable* solutions to problems. I want problems to be considered in the context of life cycle assessments that lead to cradle to cradle solutions.
I don't think I detest you. Nor do I object at all to those life cycle assessment & cradle to grave solutions. Indeed, I'm quite in favor of them. What I detest are the people who have their own set of... not assumptions, but "facts" that are only true in the alternate reality that exists only inside their heads... that they use as input to the models so as to get them to give the answers they want. GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out. The sort of reasoning that makes nuclear power unacceptable, but covering a large part of the open space in the western US with solar mirrors a good green thing.
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm not green, plain and simple.

I like saving money, I like reducing my fuel usage (if only by a little bit), and I think that breathing, on the whole, is not overrated. Look at L.A., for instance, and compare it to 30 years ago. You can actually see L.A. most of the time nowadays, unlike back then.

I also like the challenge of trying to beat my own personal best mileage.

But "Green"? No. Much of the "Green" movement seems to be about greenwashing, and almost as much seems to be about pushing unrelated agendas in the name of the ecosystem.

Then again, I think of myself as being left of center politically, so there's probably some hypocracy in there.

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Old 02-03-2009, 10:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I do what I can to reduce my consumption/waste because I'm selfish and don't want to give all my money to someone else and/or live in a filthy environment.

To address Vwbeamer's #3 green point: The likelihood of the planet getting destroyed is incredibly small indeed! The planet will continue to orbit the sun with or without human (or any other) life on it, it is indifferent to us and what we do, or do not do to it. Sure, it can become uninhabitable for humans and many, if not most/all, life that we currently know, but that won't destroy the planet, just us.

My hates?

1) - People that deny the impact that we as humans have exerted on our environment. Are we totally responsible for "global warming"? I doubt it as the earth goes through periodic cycles of higher and lower mean temps. However the CO2 levels (as measured by polar ice cores which I have seen at the Ice Core Lab in Colorado) are currently higher than they have been in the last 20,000 years. I can't understand people that don't think that will make an impact on the global environment.

2) - "Buy Green"
If you want to be "Green", don't BUY! And yes, I do know the impact of that mindset to our current economic situation, and how our economy relies on consumption (some say over-consumption). As a disclaimer, I am spending A LOT more money than I would like to be spending to repair/refurbish/build what is necessary on the farm that my wife and I purchased earlier this year, so we are definitely doing "our part" to help the economy recover.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Why be green?
1) I spend less money
2) I produce less waste
3) I take a strange amount of pride in efficient use of available resources.

What's not to like?
1) Pseudo-science. Whether it's about what is or is not environmentally friendly or sustainable or about the causes/effects of global climate change. Show me accurate, reproducible, real-world empirical data with sources or I assume you're lying and have an agenda.
2) Single solution myopia. One single change isn't going to do it all, people.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vwbeamer View Post
I'm green because-

1. I'm cheap, i like saving money.

2. I hate seeing energy, and resources wasted.

3. I love nature, don't want too see the planet destroyed.

I hate-

1. i believe man made global warming is a HOAX.

2. The far left acts like they are the only people that want to preserve the planet.
I basically like the same things as you, about being "green". It seems the green movement is the only one that places a value on old growth forest for example.

I dislike the green generalizations of people. My wife and I hunt and fish for food purposes, as its the "greenest" meat there is, and it's the only time in my life I've ever sat in one place in the woods for 4 hours at a time paying attention to my surroundings.

My biggest dislike is that many "green" solutions tend to be aimed at the middle upper class. Also green washing, like organic food from 4,000 miles away, crap like that bugs me.

I do vote for the Green Party here, not that I really hope that they will be the government some day but so the mainstream parties adopt some of the green policies to attract green voters.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm only accidentally green. I think being poor might be the easiest way to be green ever! I rarely drive my car, less than 100 miles/month on average these days. I bicycle or use the biodeisel powered bus to get to work everyday. I live in a tiny efficeint apartment. All my furniture is no longer fashionable, in other words, junk that i rescued from going to the dump. I pay electricicy, so I minimize use of that. other than the fridge, the biggest electrical appliance is the 55watt tv (old enough to have no phantom drain

What i hate about the green movement,

all the rich people faking green, buying another spare car isn't being green, even if it's a prius. stuff like that.
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Old 02-07-2009, 06:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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GREEN??? Nope! I don't do marketing hype.

I do conserve but I don't do it because of Al Gore, or any other doom-or-gloomer. What the heck does the food guy EMERIL do different now (aside from the XXXL GREEN TEE-SHIRT) compared to his days on the FOOD NETWORK. Nothing except use the word GREEN a few times each show.

In the mid seventies it was the doom and gloom pending ICE-AGE. In the nineties it was the HORRIBLE CANCER CAUSING "WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE" OZONE HOLE.

Then it was the HORRIBLE TERRIBLE GLOBAL WARMING.

WOOPS! The global temperature peaked in 1998. Somebody tell GORE.

QUICK change the term from GLOBAL WARMING to CLIMATE CHANGE. Different term, same political crap.

More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims Scientists Continue to Debunk “Consensus” in 2008

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...d-6e2d71db52d9

I'll continue to conserve because I choose to conserve.

GREEN is nothing more than the guilt trip cliche from the OZONE-GLOBAL WARMING-CLIMATE CHANGE-THEORY de JOUR MENU.

If in doubt, follow the money!
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I conserve for many reasons, the largest of which is that I hate waste and that I am cheap.

I hate that there are people who do not take the potential threat of climate change seriously. Is it real? How can we know? But how can we afford to treat it as if it is not?

I find it ironic that so called 'Conservatives' are the ones most often the least concerned about conserving the future of our planet. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or climatologist) to know that the chance not taken reduces the chance of things going awry.

Perhaps nothing we can do will change the climate future of the planet, but what if it can?
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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i agree with pretty much all of the first post,

for me personally the "real green guys" have done more damage than good by associating being a reasonable human being, with being a crazy nut with a beard and un-washed hair. because of them it has been a "cool" thing to waste and over-consume in last decades.

and to all that i would like to add that even if im in my early twenties, i sort of lost confidence in humanity. and i don't exclude that being more green, to the point of becoming auto-sufficient myself, instead of hoping my country or world will become, that it may be the only way in the future to survive or keep a human-worthy life standard.

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