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Old 09-13-2018, 06:52 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Then why is china the words fastest growing CO2 producer for 2017?
People say they are putting in all this solar but they continue to produce more and more CO2 each year.
Are all these solar panels now some how emitting CO2?
I think you are both correct.

China is putting in solar faster than anyone else. They passed Germany. Huge solar plants are planned and coming online.

But overall, solar and wind does not make up a substantial percentage of China's total electricity used. They still have a lot of coal-fired plants online, and they appear to be putting some of the plants that were taken offline, back online.

There are some reports that they are building new coal electricity plants, but other reports say not. I'm not convinced one way or the other.

If China's demand for electricity outstrips the fastest growing solar market on the planet ... someone will use coal or natural gas to fill the demand. That's not really a big surprise. It would be nice if the Chinese could decommission the coal plants, and I believe that the government has stated so (no reference link for that one). Still, I don't expect that they will limit production of goods due to a lack of electricity generation.

/begin rant

In any case, it's not something we can control. China makes most of the solar panels. We can buy them or not. THAT we can control. It appears that there are ... limited ... solar panels produced in north america. But you can purchase those panels if you like. Or perhaps panels from Germany. Some use more renewable energy, some use less. I am convinced that solar panels made from the dirtiest power available, using the most toxic process around, is better than the cleanest coal plant in service ... but perhaps I am biased.

I have done some limited research into how much electricity is required to process a gallon of gasoline. And how much natural gas, and how much diesel to transport the finished product. I think it's better to use the electricity to make solar panels or wind turbines or cars or batteries or .. pretty much ANYTHING else ... than to use it to produce gasoline

But then my truck would not run ... since batteries to drive a full sized truck 150 miles on a charge would break the bank if purchased new. I still have hope for recycled EV batteries ... sometime ...

/end rant

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Old 09-13-2018, 07:45 PM   #52 (permalink)
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A 200w solar panel here in NM should be able to make about the equivalent energy of 1 gallon of gas once a month in energy.
So if the panel lasts 30 years it will make 360 gallons of gas.
I'm pretty sure no where near that went into making them, but mono cell manufacture is extremely energy intensive.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:46 PM   #53 (permalink)
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This is why people do energy accounting. The fact that we might get 100 inches of snow annually has to be figured in.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:50 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Thin film use indium and tellurium.
Almost none of the solar panels being installed are thin film. So, your original point is wrong.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:59 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
A 200w solar panel here in NM should be able to make about the equivalent energy of 1 gallon of gas once a month in energy.
So if the panel lasts 30 years it will make 360 gallons of gas.
I'm pretty sure no where near that went into making them, but mono cell manufacture is extremely energy intensive.
The return on energy investment I have heard for solar panels, is less than 2 years. Most of the energy goes into the aluminum and glass, as I understand it. The silicon, glass, and aluminum can all be recycled, saving a lot of energy on the next generation of panels.

An electric car can drive over 41,000 miles on the electricity produced by just one 200watt solar panel. I have 31 327watt solar panels, so they will produce enough electricity to drive over 1.9 Million miles in 30 years.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:07 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thingstodo View Post
/begin rant
But then my truck would not run ... since batteries to drive a full sized truck 150 miles on a charge would break the bank if purchased new. I still have hope for recycled EV batteries ... sometime ...

/end rant
About $8,000 or 4 volt packs depending on your definition of new. Couldn't drive it because the batteries weigh more than the STATED load capacity, BUT.....
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:37 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Then why is china the words fastest growing CO2 producer for 2017?
People say they are putting in all this solar but they continue to produce more and more CO2 each year.
Are all these solar panels now some how emitting CO2?
Easy. China is using more electricity each year, and that amount is growing even faster than their solar capacity is.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:53 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Cheap electricity is expensive to create...unless Mother Nature does it.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:33 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I looked into solar panel recycling.
As far as I can tell once the wires and aluminum are removed the panels are ground up and added to asphalt.
Solar road?
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:50 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Solar panels won't be recycled; at least, not the silicium. When push comes to shove it is cheaper to make them anew than try to harvest the silicium from the panels and bringing the purity etc back to required levels.

But that's now. Panels recycled today are either very old panels or new damaged panels, but their quantities do not justify a grand scale operation. 25 years from now, when the panels built now get recycled, it could be a completely different situation. Once you have large quantities you can start sorting by type and make, which greatly enhances the possibilities to regain its materials.

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