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Old 08-08-2010, 11:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
There are so many disadvantages to film, I'll wait for actual A-B-A testing before deciding.

Wow, what could "so many" possibly be??
I have been having my cars tinted for 20 yrs....probably 8 cars .......and never had a problem.
Backing up a steep driveway in pitch black conditions, for one. Reduced visibility at night, more negative attention from the cops, a film that's easy to scratch and hard to repair. Every aftermarket tint job I've seen has eventually developed bubbles, usually after the tint shop is gone and buried. I've removed tint from two cars because of bubbling, and it was a nightmare of solvent and razor blades. On one car, the tint came off in little shards.

And still no empirical proof that it reduces the temperature of the car. (A-B-A, or at least two otherwise identical cars sitting side-by-side; no "it feels cooler.")

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Old 08-09-2010, 07:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arragonis View Post
Are you looking to tint the windscreen ?
...
The problem is that windscreen tinting can be illegal in some places for safety - police in the UK don't like it at all.

Maybe one of those beach sun reflector type things might help there though ?
No no, I have a sun reflector which I deploy when parked. I'd only tint the windows behind the driver. Here, tinting the front glass is illegal, and the front side windows can't be tinted to less than 70%.

But I brought this up because I want to understand how making the glass darker actually keeps the heat out. I want the physics of it (well, at an advanced high school level).
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I believe the way that it works is because less total IR energy is entering the greenhouse of the car. Some of it is simply absorbed, but some of that is radiated out to the outside air rather than the inside, which is where all of it would have gone without the tint. And some of it is reflected from the tint; even ones that just "look dark" will reflect some IR radiation. (And visible light as well.)

As to quantifiable effects, I do not have any numbers. There is a significant amount of anecdotal evidence, but we all know how reliable that can be.

Still, I intend to have it done (professionally) on my car at some point.

-soD
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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CLev,

Wow, your comments certainly don't reflect "emperical Proof". How about we take a picture of "EVERY AFTERMARKET TINT JOB" we see today and lets see if everyone has bubbles.
In 20 years I have never see a bubble in one car I have owned with tint. Not one. I always use a shop that is obviuosly in business and don't pay the cheapest price but I don't get the most expensive either. And in CA where you live, there are legal limits on tint. So if you cant see uot the back window.....it's above the limit.
I currently have 209k miles on my Q45 with 'AFTERMARKET TINT'. not one bubble, not one scratch. BTW 90% of all cars with decernable tint had it installed AFTER it left the factory.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I believe you guys have also missed one big thing that should help you keep your car cooler.

Insulating the roof. I know that once temps get higher than 90 degrees here I can feel the heat coming through my headliner. And of course, behind the headliner is nothing more than the bare roof.

So I am planning on insulating my roof with sound supressing filler, the same used in speaker boxes (Looks like cotton) to see if it absorbs some of the radiating heat and therefore help me cool the vehicle.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
CLev,

Wow, your comments certainly don't reflect "emperical Proof".
That's because there isn't any--on either side of the argument. I don't care if people tint their windows, but I don't think it should be part of the EM Efficiency Mods list until somebody does empirical testing. Otherwise, it's in the same camp as "freer-flowing" exhaust, HHO contraptions and K&N filters.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
That's because there isn't any--on either side of the argument. I don't care if people tint their windows, but I don't think it should be part of the EM Efficiency Mods list until somebody does empirical testing. Otherwise, it's in the same camp as "freer-flowing" exhaust, HHO contraptions and K&N filters.
You forgot polishing aluminum parts for a 10% hp gain! My fiero has no tint on the side windows because they are down most of the time...no A/C!
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
I don't care if people tint their windows, but I don't think it should be part of the EM Efficiency Mods list until somebody does empirical testing.
I doubt anyone can prove it in a real-world scenario where other variables lead to more variation than the gain you may hope to see.

Tinting affects the AC, ventilation, or the opening of windows, which in turn affects FE - so it's very indirect.
The effect is also temperature-dependant and seasonal - factors which will only add more, and more important variables.

Proving this on a car will require a far more controlled environment than the wide open road.


It's a bit like MetroMPG's experiment with airtabs: they definitely smoothed out the airflow on the back of his car - which should have a positive effect - but under his test conditions he couldn't prove they effectively reduced his FE.
Would NASA list them as a spin-off of their research if they didn't work ... for their intended purpose ?
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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My background - professional window tinter for 7 years. I own my own business.

Does tint reduce heat inside the car? Yes.

But there's more to tint than just black plastic.

There's traditional dyed film, which is just black plastic. There's also "deep dyed" or pigmented polyester films. These films are a step above dyed because of their durability, but they still have poor heat rejection typically. Here is MADICO Charcool 35% (total solar energy rejection 40%):



Next comes "high performance films" which is typically a dyed or pigmented film with aluminum sputtered or vapor deposited onto the film. This provides increased heat rejection through reflecting the heat. Of course the disadvantage can be reduced radio reception (if your antenna is embedded in the glass) and reduced reception of RF devices (GPS, keyless entry, tire pressure monitor systems, etc). Very high metal content gives that "chrome" look and gives even better heat rejection. Here's Global HP Fusion 50% (total solar energy rejection 43%):





The next revolution in tinting was ceramic films. Instead of a metal being deposited on the film they used a ceramic component. These are typically non-conductive and therefore do not interfere with RF signals. These films typically provide EXCELLENT heat rejection. Here's a 67 GTO with Geoshield 50% and 40% ceramic (total solar energy rejection 47% and 53%):



Finally there's a few newer films out there with different technologies. LLumar ATX (Axcess) and CTX come to mind. ATX used "cermet" which is a non-conductive metal wrapped in a ceramic. 3M Crystalline uses an infra-red absorbing dye in the scratch resistant coating to provide good heat rejection (with some obviously drawbacks).

So there's plenty of films out there with excellent heat rejection that aren't dark and don't have "disadvantages" of backing into stuff (hey, learn to drive).

Think about it, a ceramic 50% has a higher total solar energy rejection (47%) than a dyed limo tint (typically about 40% to 45%). So you don't need to go dark to get good heat rejection!!!



Now, having said all that. Will tint give you better MPG?


Most likely not. The only time it would really help is on the rare days that it will allow you to be comfortable enough to turn off the AC and keep the windows up. As we all know, if the AC is on (no matter what setting) it's still turning on that compressor. So it's really an all or nothing kind of thing.


But, tint will provide instant comfort (less of a hot feeling from the sun while driving), reduce fighting with the little lady over the AC controls (she's hot in the sun, you're not in the shade, tint helps balance that), and provide 99% UV rejection (less skin cancer risk).
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piwoslaw View Post
No no, I have a sun reflector which I deploy when parked. I'd only tint the windows behind the driver. Here, tinting the front glass is illegal, and the front side windows can't be tinted to less than 70%.

But I brought this up because I want to understand how making the glass darker actually keeps the heat out. I want the physics of it (well, at an advanced high school level).
Oops, sorry, in my lengthy discussion I kind of skipped this one.

1.) The tint and window now absorbs more of the heat. This in turn is dissipated through driving because the wind cools the glass.

2.) Tint reflects heat. This comes down to the type of tint as I mentioned. Metal and ceramic components are used to reflect the heat.

Kind of like how a black tshirt gets hotter in the sun than a white tshirt.

So it's a combination of the two. The total solar energy rejection of the film is a good way to compare films based on which reject more heat.

Some films focus on the infrared spectrum too.

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