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Old 09-30-2009, 10:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderboy View Post
I asked if they could/would make custom gears (taller 5th gear anyone? Darin?).
Nothing yet, sorry. I haven't seen my brother for about 2 weeks. I should give him a call - he seemed to suggest that one of the "old school" (non wire-EDM) machinists he knows is interested.

---

Could you do me a favour while you've got that motor apart?

I'm wondering about one day removing one of my compression rings, so I'm curious to know some measurements of the XFi one-ring-piston, EG:

- measurement from piston top to center of compression and oil ring
- measurement from wrist pin axis to center of compression and oil ring
- measurement from wrist pin axis to top of piston
- total "height" of the piston - top to bottom of skirt (?)
- anything else you think might be useful for comparison's sake

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Old 09-30-2009, 11:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I highly suggest replacing the exhaust valves with stainless steel ones! These Suzuki carbon monsters are well known for burning exhaust valves from retarded timing.

I have rebuilt 5 G10 heads and I am doing my 3rd bottom end rebuild right now................

http://geometroforum.com/topic/638797/
http://geometroforum.com/topic/1299263/
http://geometroforum.com/topic/1144189/
http://geometroforum.com/topic/2175380/

Stainless steel valves are available here.............

3Tech Performance

I also suggest using the 3Tech head bolts!
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Will -

You have 3 cylinders, therefore, 4 main bearings. The thrust bearings will either be integrated with one of the mains, so the bearing will actually look like a saddle instead of a curved piece of metal, or it may also just be 2 half moon shapes (In your Honda, it's 2 half moons)

It will go in the area between one of the mains and the corresponding counter weight on the crank.

Why is it there? -

When you push the clutch, you're putting the weight of the clutch's pressure plate tension against the crank shaft, while the engine is running. The thrust bearing, appropriately named, prevents this from moving the crankshaft enough to cause misalignment and damage.

You'll see them when you pull the bottom end apart to replace the main bearings.

Rings -

Yes, just replace them. You'll still have to measure ring gap before installing them, though, because if you have to hone the cylinders, that will increase the cylinder's bore by a small amount, which could set the ring gaps too wide. The ring gaps could be too small, as well, in which case, you'll need to file them. Always file from the outside in, so you don't leave burrs, which could cause damage to the cylinder lining.

Bearings -

Also, replace them all. Normally, you'd have marked the cylinders as you were pulling them out, but since you're replacing the rings and bearings, it's not as necessary. I just hope you bought the right size bearings, because there should be markers on the crank/block to tell what each bearing size is that goes in each bearing bore. They're not always just standard bearing size.

That's all for now.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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More updates: The machine shop finished the job on the head. The machinist that did the work was again interested in my car, as was who seemed to be the owner or manager of the shop (to whom I plugged EM a couple times). They were delighted by the few projects I mentioned to them relating to ecomodding, and they wanted me to stop in whenever I'm around (the racing guys want some efficiency pals for when the gas prices go up permanently I guess). I forgot to take a photo of the lovely head, but I assure you it's nice. @Johnny: I already bought valves (and everything else but the gaskets from JIS) from partsdinosaur. The valves I took out were actually in pretty dern good shape, and the guides were so good the machinist advised against replacing them. I'm really considering not replacing the rings at all since I did mech's trick of putting the rings in each cylinder and seeing how much play they have (really not much at all to speak of). Any thoughts on this Mullet Man?

Here is the top of the block that I used one of those green scotch pads to clean off. I got all of the previous gasket material off and am pretty much ready to put the head back on except for....

...this. From the top picture, this is the hole to the bottom right. This is an oil .... tube for lack of better word. Is it a pressure tube or a return? The machinist said it would be alright if I used some kind of gasket gunk stuff to put on before putting the head gasket on. My dad chose a bad spot to lodge a screwdriver to whack the head off

The pistons were surprisingly easy to clean off with the scotch pad. I don't think I need to get too thorough here with carbon removal - it wasn't on thick at all to begin with. Engine was generally in pretty good shape for 130k.

The throttle/carb body: anything special I should do to clean things up in here? I reached up in there with the scotch pad, cleaned off the plate as best I could. I don't know how thorough is advisable here, so please advise


Also forgot the picture of the nice clean tranny I spent an hour huffing petroleum distillates to clean up. I should also include a photo of the transmission HAR. ahem. That's all for now.

Edit: @Darin: Sorry I didn't notice your post with requests. I'll get on that before I throw it back together.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Carb cleaning can be achieved with... you guessed it! Carb cleaner.

If it ran before hand, you probably won't have too much trouble getting it to run again. If you do, it may be just a matter of cleaning the jets out, which isn't altogether difficult.

That screwdriver dent looks pretty bad, but if you put some sealant in there, it'll probably hold up to it. Being on the outside of the block, I'd have to guess it's a return, but I could be wrong.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks Will!

Looking good!

Someone finally made a tranny joke! (I almost do everytime I type it, but have thus far managed to hold off.)
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Many builders really REALLY wig out when you mention "green Scotch pad" and "cleaning engine parts"!!!

All I can say is, do an extra extra goodie-good thorough job of clean-up afterwards.

Long, unedited... here's GM's take on it:

#87-61-24: INFO. USE OF 'SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS' - (Apr 2, 1998)


SUBJECT: INFORMATION - USE OF "SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS"


MODELS: 1998 AND PRIOR PASSENGER CARS AND TRUCKS


THE USE OF "SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS" -
WHEN CLEANING ENGINE GASKET SEALING SURFACES, AND/OR CLEANING PARTS FROM AN ENGINE WHICH ARE TO BE REUSED; SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS (TYPICALLY A WOVEN FIBER PAD DESIGN) WHICH CONTAIN ABRASIVES, SUCH AS A HIGH AMOUNT OF ALUMINUM OXIDE, ARE NOT RECOMMENDED.
THE USE OF SUCH SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS DISLODGE ALUMINUM OXIDE (FROM THE DISC) AND METAL PARTICLES, WHICH CAN LEAD TO PREMATURE ENGINE BEARING FAILURE.
THE PRESENCE OF ALUMINUM OXIDE IN ENGINE OIL HAS BEEN SHOWN TO CAUSE PREMATURE ENGINE BEARING FAILURE. IN SOME CASES THIS FAILURE OCCURS IN AS LITTLE AS 1,000 MILES (2,200 KM) OR LESS AFTER THE REPAIR HAS BEEN MADE.
SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS MAY GRIND THE COMPONENT PART MATERIAL AND IMBED IT INTO THE DISC. THIS CAN RESULT WHEN MORE AGGRESSIVE GRINDING OF THE GASKET SURFACE TAKES PLACE. PROCEDURE: A NEW PRODUCT FROM 3M(R) AUTOMOTIVE AFTERMARKET DIVISION, THE ROLOC BRISTLE DISC*, IS NOW AVAILABLE WHICH ADDRESSES SOME OF THE ABOVE CONCERNS.
* WE BELIEVE THIS PRODUCT TO BE RELIABLE. THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL MANUFACTURERS OF SUCH PRODUCTS. GENERAL MOTORS DOES NOT ENDORSE, INDICATE ANY PREFERENCE FOR OR ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ITEMS WHICH MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM THIS FIRM, OR FOR ANY SUCH ITEMS WHICH MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM OTHER SOURCES.
CAUTION:

TO AVOID PERSONAL INJURY FOLLOW STANDARD SAFETY PRECAUTIONS, INCLUDING THE USE OF SAFETY GLASSES, SHOULD BE OBSERVED DURING SURFACE PREPARATION.
READ THE SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS INCLUDED WITH THE PRODUCT BEFORE USE.
REMOVE BY HAND, WITH A SCRAPPER (PLASTIC SCRAPPER ON ALUMINUM SURFACES), THE BULK OF MATERIAL ON THE COMPONENT SURFACE BEFORE USING THE 3M(R) ROLOC BRISTLE DISC.
NOTICE: DUE CARE MUST BE TAKEN TO AVOID THE ENTRY OF ANY MATERIAL INTO THE ENGINE BLOCK OIL AND COOLANT PASSAGES WHEN CLEANING COMPONENT SURFACES.


THE PRESENCE OF FOREIGN MATERIAL IN ENGINE OIL HAS BEEN SHOWN TO CAUSE PREMATURE ENGINE BEARING FAILURE.
COVER OR BLOCK ALL ENGINE PORTS (ENGINE OIL AND COOLANT) AND OPEN AREAS (CYLINDER BORES, LIFTER VALLEY, ETC.) TO PREVENT POSSIBLE CONTAMINATION WHEN WORKING ON THE ENGINE.
VACUUM UP ALL CONTAMINANTS (I.E. DIRT, GASKET MATERIAL, ETC.).
IMPORTANT: ENGINE COMPONENTS, CLEANED WITH 3M ROLOC BRISTLE DISC, SHOULD BE THOROUGHLY CLEANED BEFORE RE-INSTALLING THEM ON THE ENGINE BLOCK.


THE USE OF A VACUUM, SPRAY CLEANER GM P/N 12346139 OR 12377981, PARTS CLEANER, ETC. TO REMOVE ALL TRACES OF CONTAMINANT IS SUGGESTED.
THE DISCS (SEE FIGURE 1--3M(R) ROLOC DISC IDENTIFICATION) ARE AVAILABLE IN DIFFERENT GRIT LEVELS, WITH SUGGESTED APPLICATIONS AS FOLLOWS:
3M(R) PART COLOR/ SUGGESTED NUMBER** DESCRIPTION*** APPLICATION QUAN. --------- ------------- ------------ ----- WHITE 120X GRIT ALUMINUM BOX OF ROLOC BRISTLE DISC (MILD 10 07532 1" DIAMETER ABRASIVE) 07528 2" DIAMETER 07529 3" DIAMETER
YELLOW 80X GRIT ALUMINUM OR BOX OF ROLOC BRISTLE DISC CAST IRON/ 10 07531 1" DIAMETER STEEL 07525 2" DIAMETER (MEDIUM 07527 3" DIAMETER ABRASIVE)
GREEN 50X GRIT CAST IRON/ BOX OF ROLOC BRISTLE DISC STEEL (HARSH 10 07530 1" DIAMETER ABRASIVE) 07524 2" DIAMETER 07526 3" DIAMETER
*** THE ABOVE 3M(R) ROLOC BRISTLE DISCS ARE TO BE USED WITH THE CORRECT DISC PAD ASSEMBLIES LISTED BELOW.
CAUTION:

NON-3M(R) BACK-UP PAD'S MAY HAVE A DEEPER THREADED CAVITY WHICH CAUSES THE BUTTON (ON THE DISC) TO CONTINUE TO TIGHTEN DOWN DURING USE. THIS CAN CAUSE THE BUTTON TO SEPARATE FROM THE DISC RESULTING IN DISC FLY OFF AND POTENTIAL OPERATOR HARM.
3M(R) PART NUMBER** DESCRIPTION QUAN. --------- ------------------------- ------ 05538 1" ROLOC DISC PAD ASSEMBLY BOX OF 05539 2" ROLOC DISC PAD ASSEMBLY ONE (1) 05540 3" ROLOC DISC PAD ASSEMBLY
NOTICE: WHEN USING ANY ABRASIVE MATERIAL, PARTICULARLY ON ALUMINUM SURFACES, CARE MUST BE TAKEN TO AVOID DAMAGE TO THE SURFACE AREA. EXCESSIVE MATERIAL REMOVAL MAY RESULT IN DAMAGE TO SEALING SURFACES.


** THESE COMPONENTS CAN BE OBTAINED FROM LOCAL 3M(R) SUPPLIERS. THE BRAND NAMES "3M" AND "ROLOC" ARE TRADEMARKS OF MINNESOTA MINING AND MANUFACTURING COMPANY, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 55144.
PARTS INFORMATION:


PART NUMBERS DESCRIPTION ------------ ----------- 12346139, 12377981 SPRAY CLEANER
PARTS (SPRAY CLEANERS ONLY) ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO.
FIGURES: 01 ATTACHMENTS: 00
FIGURE 1 - 3M(R) ROLOC BRISTLE DISC IDENTIFICATION 1 - SHAFT (TYPICAL) 2 - BACK-UP PAD 3 - ROLOC BRISTLE DISC
Figure 1
GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.
COPYRIGHT 1998. GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.


WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
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O crap... so should I use anything special to get aluminum oxide off of the surfaces I used the pad on? How certain can I bet that the pad I used contains aluminum oxide? I dont remember if it was an actual scotch brand pad or what - it was just sitting around my father's shop loose. It was brand new, but no packaging and I don't remember what the "watermark" on it said. I suppose it will be alright if I wash it off really well with water or a vinegar solution (from reading what the google machine tells me about aluminum oxide).
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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FYI, "green" Scotch-Brite pads do not contain aluminum oxide as an abrasive. Scotch-Brite is available in many types, and the maroon color pads that you would most likely get from an automotive supply shop, do contain aluminum oxide. The abrasive in the green household pads is magnesium chloride. (Info obtained from 3M wesite and MSDS's) I am an aircraft mechanic also, and we used to use the maroon 7447 pads all the time for surface prep and cleaning of bare aluminum. I read many aircraft forums, and there was a huge debate a while back about the different colors of scotch-brite. This doesn't mean you still shouldn't clean things well.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I have used them, in different colors too, but was extra extra thorough on clean-up.

I tend to prefer other means, like a wire brush head on an angle grinder.

I cleaned until I could take a fresh white napkin or paper towel, hit the part with brake cleaner, wipe it, and see no color whatsoever.

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