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Old 06-18-2018, 04:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
What is the payload and towing limits for your Yota? What are the torque and horsepower ratings? Consumers have demanded more over the years.
Don't know about actual limits. I can fill the bed with logs, and tow a moderately-sized trailer, no problem. Can also pull stumps in 4-Low :-)

Customers may demand more (or at least the appearance of more), but that doesn't mean they need or use it. Just like the aerodynamic benefits of the tailfins on a '59 Cadillac :-)

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Old 06-18-2018, 05:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Don't know about actual limits. I can fill the bed with logs, and tow a moderately-sized trailer, no problem. Can also pull stumps in 4-Low :-)

Customers may demand more (or at least the appearance of more), but that doesn't mean they need or use it. Just like the aerodynamic benefits of the tailfins on a '59 Cadillac :-)
Not saying it's reasonable, just saying that is the reality. There's a reason your Toyota is an '88 model, and not the current model, as customers wouldn't stand for your vehicle today.

Truck commercials are always touting the power, payload and tow ratings. Consumers might settle for a truck that is as powerful as the previous year and is more fuel efficient, but they certainly won't accept something that is less powerful and less capable than the previous year.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Just imagine if they said in 1988 "This truck has awesome utility. Let's maintain that and increase fuel economy." What kind of MPG would it get now?
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Just imagine if they said in 1988 "This truck has awesome utility. Let's maintain that and increase fuel economy." What kind of MPG would it get now?
Safety and features increased, which increased weight, which required heavier frames, which increases weight, which requires more powerful engines, which increases weight...

It basically becomes a feedback loop where things must get larger and heavier. Consumers also expect things to be faster and more powerful as time goes on...

The only way I see truck manufacturers meeting consumer expectations going forward is to develop hybrid trucks. Instant torque and power from EV motors, increased fuel economy from downsized engines and energy recapture from braking. Trucks probably have the most to gain in terms of fuel economy from hybridization when compared to relatively small cars like the Prius. They also suffer handling issues due to horrible weight distribution, which may be mitigated by adding EV components in strategic locations.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Safety are the only features that matter to me, but it frustrates me that they have a similar effect to weight belts.

Weird. I asked James if he had 20" rims, bluetooth, wifi, built-in navigation, a DVD player, heated leather seats, steering wheel, and mirrors, and I forget what else. Where did that go?! Help help! I am being repressed!
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Safety are the only features that matter to me, but it frustrates me that they have a similar effect to weight belts.

Weird. I asked James if he had 20" rims, bluetooth, wifi, built-in navigation, a DVD player, heated leather seats, steering wheel, and mirrors, and I forget what else. Where did that go?! Help help! I am being repressed!
... and I'm somewhat opposite-minded. My safety plan mostly includes not getting into a wreck and relying as little on airbags and seatbelts as possible. Given that I ride a motorcycle, vehicular safety systems are less important to me. I accept that I'm much more likely to die just like everyone else; by cardiovascular disease or cancer.

I once blew the fuse on my Acura that allows the trunk to release from the keyfob. I always thought that feature was dumb, even as I used it. Then when it stopped working, it annoyed the heck out of me. Now I've got a Mazda with a hatch that opens and closes itself, and that seemed dumb too, but when you have an armload of groceries and a baby, not so dumb. Technology is nice, and I might be willing to pay for some of it both in direct cost, and in fuel economy and acceleration. Consumers seem to agree.
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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First-World problems.

In Latvia, there no modern features, only potato.
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Old 06-19-2018, 04:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Not saying it's reasonable, just saying that is the reality. There's a reason your Toyota is an '88 model, and not the current model, as customers wouldn't stand for your vehicle today.
I don't know about that. The reason my truck's an '88 is that I could buy it for $2800 a decade ago :-) (And sell my previous '84 that I couldn't get to pass smog for $1100.) As for customers not standing for the vehicle today, there are plenty of people still driving these trucks. Looking at the local Craigslist, I see a dozen '85-90 ones for sale, asking prices ranging from $2K-$8K. And I occasionally get people asking if I want to sell mine...

So it's not that there's not a market for this sort of truck, it's that (just as with small cars) the manufacturers don't want to build them.
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mount the 4-cylinder engine horizontally to make the truck FWD and you can eliminate the driveline and rear differential. Then mount the electric motor in the rear for part-time 4-wheel drive, and the battery under the bed to keep center of gravity as low as possible and shift some weight back so the truck rides smoother and handles better.

That's my idea for a hybrid truck, anyhow.
That is exactly how my Volvo V60 D6 plug in hybrid works.

It has an 5 cilinder twin turbo diesel with 215hp 440Nm with a 6speed automatic on the front wheels.

And an 68hp 200Nm electric motor to the rear wheels, the battery of 10,8kWh (8kWh useable) in the trunk floor. I wish i had 10kWh useable. That would give me a full electric ride to work and back home. Now i come 3 to 5 km short. In full electric mode at 130km/h the diesel engine jumps in.
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I don't know about that. The reason my truck's an '88 is that I could buy it for $2800 a decade ago :-) (And sell my previous '84 that I couldn't get to pass smog for $1100.) As for customers not standing for the vehicle today, there are plenty of people still driving these trucks. Looking at the local Craigslist, I see a dozen '85-90 ones for sale, asking prices ranging from $2K-$8K. And I occasionally get people asking if I want to sell mine...

So it's not that there's not a market for this sort of truck, it's that (just as with small cars) the manufacturers don't want to build them.
Manufacturers don't build used cars though. The point is that new car buyers won't stand for a "new" '88 Toyota and associated price tag.

Only new vehicles are relevant to the discussion as they will become tomorrow's used vehicles.

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