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Old 07-13-2009, 07:41 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Bone's 2010 Prius - '10 Toyota Prius Black
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i think the Top 10 lists look great right now. Darin had talked about editing the code to eliminate anyone without a current 90 day mpg (if you look at the Top 10 list there are a few on there with "0" as their figure). On a smaller note, my Prius does not show up on the list even though I have a current 90 day...but others might be missing on the lists too).

I think the Top 10 lists are really cool...fun way to challenge yourself to move up the list! Great job guys!

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Old 07-13-2009, 10:23 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
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Thanks for the kind words. Someone be sure to remind me to work on this in there days when I am back in the america-zone (booooooooooo, not boo-urns).
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:32 PM   #53 (permalink)
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..."top 10 list" suggestion: known (and available) production tires having lowest rolling resistance (LRR) coefficient?

Last edited by gone-ot; 07-16-2009 at 11:55 PM..
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Old 07-19-2009, 08:46 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Little Blue - '98 Ford Escort ZX2 Cool
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I'd like to see a list for us fellows sadled with ATX's. It's proably too complicated, and I'm biased in asking for this, but there just isn't quite the potential in a ATX as an MTX.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:15 AM   #55 (permalink)
cjm
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Adventure Mobile II - '94 Honda Civic Hatchback DX
90 day: 45.02 mpg (US)

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90 day: 24.08 mpg (US)
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With regard to listing top vehicles, I agree with many posters here that the 90 day measurement is better than lifetime. What might be better still is to select certain tanks to measure the vehicle's potential rather than it's actual performance (which might be low due to poor weather or loaning it to your neighbor). In other words, I think a vehicle that has recently recorded a 75MPG tank should have us focus on that tank rather than the average of 75MPG and 45MPG because of a failed P&G experiment. The USGA takes your 10 best rounds out of your last 20 to consider your playing ability -- tournament scores are factored in too, but the details are not as important here as the concept. So what about taking the best 3 of the last 6 tanks requiring one to have been registered within the last 90 days?
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:03 AM   #56 (permalink)
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The best tanks has a good premise, but I don't agree with the idea, because it will produce inflated numbers. Many people here pump until the 'first click', to try to maintain a consistent fill-up. However, if you pump at different stations, then the first click level could be different. So, even with the same driving habits, you could fill up 9 gallons one week from station A, and 10 gallons the next week from station B.

If you were to alternate stations every time you fill up, then your average would be about 9.5 gallons, but if you were only to take the best tanks recorded, then it would show up as 9 gallons.

Also, if somebody wanted to (not sure why they would, but who knows), then they could fake the system intentionally, not just by going to different pumps. Rather than fill to the first click, they could just do a short-fill, and then the next time they fill up, they would just fill it all the way. This would produce the same inflated numbers, and really not give an accurate idea of their mileage.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:39 AM   #57 (permalink)
cjm
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Adventure Mobile II - '94 Honda Civic Hatchback DX
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Good points McTimson. In fact, your post reminds me of something I read on this site where someone actually experienced the good tank/bad tank alternation due to differences in pumps (or was it that one of the stations was on an incline changing the angle of the gas tank?). I agree that high end aberrations should be eliminated somehow, and counting all tanks does take care of that. My suggestion was simply meant as a means of dropping bad tanks which might encourage experimentation in techniques or mods. Since good tanks/bad tanks will probably come in pairs, maybe an even, contiguous set of tanks is the best indication of ability? Best 4-in-a-row out of last 10?
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:59 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I think the top 10 lists should reflect the top 10 real world mileage ratings. For 'non-believers' of hypermiling, having it show only the best tanks would be another reason for them not to believe that people can get such great mileage. Including every tank still keeps the average high, and shows what can be achieved by anyone on a regular basis.

Even with experimentation of techniques and mods, I think most people here are going to be able to pull some pretty impressive MPG numbers. If it were a concern for somebody, then the simplest thing to do would be to just not add that tank to the mileage log. I don't agree with this idea, because even if it was a bad technique that lowered your average, so what? You've learned from it, and the next tank, you'll be able to recover from it.

Also, I think there are too many other factors in picking the best tanks. If we took the best 4 in a row, for example, then they would probably come from a stretch of nice weather for that person, which again, wouldn't reflect a real-world average. It's going to rain at least a little bit for everybody, so why not have that show in the average?
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:41 AM   #59 (permalink)
cjm
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90 day: 45.02 mpg (US)

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Well, for a newbie like myself. I'm more interested in a car's potential capability than its average performance. By identifying those top vehicles, I can see what mods and techniques they have used and maybe get my vehicle/driver to an optimum state that much faster.

With regard to the nice weather example, that is exactly my point. If we use just the last 90 days, our list will reflect (in part) which cars experienced good weather in the last 90 days. If a car in its current configuration has the potential for doing 70 MPG @65 MPH Hwy because it did so in the last 180 days but not in the last 90 (due to weather, spouse was driving, etc), it's still a "top vehicle" in my book.

I think I understand your position on the real world average but I think the lifetime average fills that need. I just think the "top vehicle" list here on the home page of ecomodder.com should highlight the capabilities of the cars in good conditions rather than aggregate performance in all conditions.

I think we're in agreement that one excellent tank should not propel a vehicle to the top of any list and that averages of some sort must be taken. Best 4-in-a-row of last 10 (or similar) is still an average and should eliminate spikes caused by short fills or other anomalies. I think we simply disagree on what to do with the recent bad tanks. Reasonable people can agree to disagree, eh? Thanks.
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:59 AM   #60 (permalink)
cjm
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Just a final thought since I never explicitly stated this. I guess I see the aggregate performance thing and comparison to EPA ratings at apples and oranges. I don't believe the EPA rating includes poor conditions but is meant to show the cars potential. Since EPA ratings are how we measure our improvements, we should also strive to measure potential.

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