Would a modern car with drum brakes all-around still have a chance?

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by JSH

I'm also not keen on making the details of OTA updates public as RTR advocates would like. Manufactures are working hard to make ever increasingly connect cars secure from hackers. It seems stupid to just give them all the code.

That would be called Security Through Obscurity. You can't lock something down if you put an example in each customer's hand.

OTOH the Tesla backend is running the Dojo chip, or will be soon. Reverse engineer that.

archive.org/details/car-hackers-handbook-the

Download the book for free!
....

Modern cars are more computerized than ever. Infotainment and navigation systems, Wi-Fi, automatic software updates, and other innovations aim to make driving more *convenient. But vehicle technologies haven’t kept pace with today’s more hostile security environment, leaving *millions vulnerable to attack.

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Build an accurate threat model for your vehicle
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Override factory settings with performance-tuning techniques
Build physical and virtual test benches to try out exploits safely

If you’re curious about automotive security and have the urge to hack a two-ton computer, make The Car Hacker’s Handbook your first stop.

[Isaac Zachary]

Well, if you look at computers, which cars kind of are, there's a trend to go from "security from obscurity" to full blown locks and encryption.

Take a look at how Microsoft is pushing for all Windows 11 computers to have a Trusted Platform Module (TPM, not to be confused with Tire Pressure Monitor) version 2.0 or newer with secure boot. If they can encrypt hard drives and everything else with secret keys then it becomes a lot harder to hack computers.

The same with cars. If the tele data isn't so already, it will be soon encrypted. I'm sure CAN bus and all that is going to go the same route too if it hasn't. Soon sensors will have encryption chips and send encrypted digital data instead of analog voltage signals like they do now.

[freebeard]

If they can encrypt hard drives and everything else with secret keys then it becomes a lot harder to hack computers.

I used to live in that world. The Clipper chip and the UEFI bootloader.

I could edit the (Mac) boot blocks with Norton Disk Editor but Symantec never ported it to OSX. Nowadays if I forget the password I'm toast.

What's you favorite flavor of Linux?

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by freebeard

What's you favorite flavor of Linux?

Right now I don't have any use for Linux. Very few of the apps I use exist or have suitable alternatives on Linux. This is the same reason I don't consider using MacOS, iOS, iPadOS or a Chromebook. I only use Android for convenience and one other app.

I actually do have one laptop running Linux right now that I picked up for free that I'm thinking of installing Windows XP on it.

Getting back on topic, sort of, the reason I would want to run Windows XP on an old laptop is to run a hacked version of TIS, Toyota's OBD program, so that I can do things to my car like change the TPMS codes or bleed my brakes. I'm still up in the air if I should do that or not...

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Interesting. I see that would be a problem. Kind of like giving out the code to unlock cars and reprogram keys and then anyone who wants to become a car thief has suddenly got an easy way to do it.

Yes it is.

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I did ask the biggest shop in town if they could change my brake fluid. They said they didn't have the tool to do it. Maybe the next town over, but the road is closed except weekends and it's 3 hours to go around.

That is very odd as ABS is decades old now and the tools are cheap.

Just one vender's offerings: https://www.innova.com/collections/all

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

That is very odd as ABS is decades old now and the tools are cheap.

Just one vender's offerings: https://www.innova.com/collections/all

So it must have been something else I had asked that they couldn't do. But now I'm not sure what it was or for what vehicle, or if the vehicle was even mine...

Anywho, I went ahead and called them up again today and they said they could do it. I got it scheduled to have the brake fluid flushed on the 27th. I'll let you know how it goes.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

I'm also not keen on making the details of OTA updates public as RTR advocates would like. Manufactures are working hard to make ever increasingly connect cars secure from hackers. It seems stupid to just give them all the code.

I'm not so keen on OTA updates, at all.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Even though nowadays just a few motorcycles and most medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks and bus frames are the last new vehicles featuring all-around drum brakes, and the average Joe perceives it either as inherently inferior or simply "uncool" when it comes to motorcycles as a large front disc (either just bigger than stock or in a different shape such as those wavy discs), I am seeing a reasonable amount of motorcycles originally fitted with a front disc brake converted to drums all around. I guess the ABS mandate for new cars in my country from 2014 on may prevent similar mods to be implemented on cars, yet I'm sure some fleet owners and managers would be more willing to try a similar approach if they could legally do it.

[JSH]

Drum brakes are increasingly rare on medium and heavy duty trucks in the USA today. The Freightliner Cascadia comes standard with disc brakes today - with the option to downgrade to drums.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by JSH

Drum brakes are increasingly rare on medium and heavy duty trucks in the USA today.

It still has a greater market share in other countries, and even top-tier makers such as Volvo and Scania have to offer such option in Brazil and parts of Africa for instance. Odd enough, other manufacturers such as Isuzu offer disc brakes on certain models within the lightest and heaviest categories, yet most of the intermediate models retain drums all-around.

The Freightliner Cascadia comes standard with disc brakes today - with the option to downgrade to drums.

Such option remaining available just shows how drums might not be that bad at all, for the right applications, or if the operator or a fleet manager is too concerned about discs bending under harsh operating conditions.