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Old 11-23-2010, 05:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohaspirit View Post
The only thing is that if you constantly charge to 80%
it lessens your batteries ability to charge to 100%
(shortening the range)
That is not true for all battery types, Lithium batteries like to be between 20% and 80% full 40% for storage, the last 20% is where damage is done, lead acid do however tend to like to be fully charged.
For most batteries fast charging will shorten their life a bit but the limit on fast charging is monitoring them to keep from over charging, and finding a way to dump enough electrons in.

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Old 11-23-2010, 06:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
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A bit of tongue in cheek reply

While charging the batteries, som efficiency is lost in the genset itself, and it's unlikely even that Honda generator will last its quoted timeframe on a gallon of fuel. (Look at the specs a bit closer, the quoted timeframe is for 50% total capacity useage.)

You'll also lose a bit through heat as the batteries are charged.

So why not attach the ICE motor directly to the wheels?

Yes, there's a bit of sarcasm involved, but there is an important thing to consider. Generating your own electricity is not subsidized by the government and isn't nearly as efficient as a professional power plant. I suspect if the miles per gallon used by the generator were figured, and it was the only source of recharging for the batteries, you would have an efficient vehicle to be sure, but not nearly as much so as when the batteries were charged by the house current.

I think a diesel genset would be the best choice for a range extender, but it would be nearly worthless in constant driving. It would be highly awesome for city driving though, assuming the weight of a genset would be better than the same weight of additional battery capacity.

Even in electric vehicles the laws of physics still apply. There is no free lunch. If you had a portable genset capable of recharging the batteries after they've been discharged plus driving the electric motor, it would be so heavy and consume so much fuel you'd be better off attaching the engine to a transmission and losing the electric drive altogether.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.

Last edited by ShadeTreeMech; 11-23-2010 at 06:24 PM..
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech View Post
So why not attach the ICE motor directly to the wheels?
I agree with the point that it's more efficient to charge from the wall, but the genset is an acceptable trade-off if it's used seldomly (and, if possible, it's easily removed and left at home when not needed.)

The ICE is certainly an option (especially if the car is 4WD/AWD and thus can be electrified easily), but then you're in and out of your powerband. An 80cc or 150cc 4-stroke driving an Etek (especially if you can go with, say, a 72V drive system so you don't have to boost/buck your Etek to match) would be a lot more efficient, if not as clean. A biofueled diesel of equivalent power would probably be even more efficient, with noise and vibration being the inherent problems.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
A biofueled diesel of equivalent power would probably be even more efficient, with noise and vibration being the inherent problems.
A well designed modern diesel can be quieter and smoother than a similar gasser. Noise and vibration are inherant to older manual pumped diesels, but not a good quality commonrail injected diesel.

Then again a gasser running at nearly no throttle would be very efficient I suspect.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech View Post
A well designed modern diesel can be quieter and smoother than a similar gasser. Noise and vibration are inherant to older manual pumped diesels, but not a good quality commonrail injected diesel.

Then again a gasser running at nearly no throttle would be very efficient I suspect.
I was referring to a diesel with the equivalent power to a 150cc 4-stroke. Those Kubota rattleboxes come to mind.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Lol, not exactly a well designed comonrail I suspect
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
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IMHO the best way to get the get the best of both worlds (petrol and electric) is to have two cars, one petrol and one electric. Drive the EV on majority of trips that you take every day that follow the same route, work, school, store, church, wherever, and take the petrol car when your not sure where you are going. It seems like that when you try to combine the two by adding a gen to an EV you are more likely to get worst of both rather than the best of both.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:54 PM   #28 (permalink)
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the original topic wasnt about adding a gen to an EV permanantly


more like a just-in-case
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:57 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
An 80cc or 150cc 4-stroke driving an Etek (especially if you can go with, say, a 72V drive system so you don't have to boost/buck your Etek to match) would be a lot more efficient, if not as clean. A biofueled diesel of equivalent power would probably be even more efficient, with noise and vibration being the inherent problems.
Alohaspirit,

Sorry about being off topic ......

Clev,

You basically described an SAE Formula Hybrid - Formula Hybrid

Most of the SAE Formula Hybrids built use a 250cc 4-stroke driving an Etek for charging. Both Series and Parallel Hybrid systems are used. Some of the teams are using SuperCaps in series with the battery packs to balance the discharge load under acceleration, and to capture regenerative braking energy.

-Mark

Last edited by sawickm; 11-24-2010 at 09:07 AM..
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:14 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech View Post
Noise and vibration are inherant to older manual pumped diesels, but not a good quality commonrail injected diesel.
CR diesels are less noisy than PD diesels, but still nowhere near as smooth as a petrol engine.

Diesels get additional soundproofing (and extra weight).

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