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Old 11-30-2016, 03:50 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
Fred Hayes uses the Airtech dustbin and tail section on his Vetter Challenge diesel bike. Some of the other riders noticed he had some wobble at speed so a bit of vertical fin might be useful. Check with low&slow for his input.
Right. He had the MV Agusta fairing:
http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/.../MV1751965.htm
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/201...Challenge.html

I'm using the DBL2 featured on the CB750:
CB750 CAFE BAGGER DUSTBIN SADDLEBAGS SINGLE OVERHEAD CAM, CB 750, SOHC STREET TRACKER, DIRTTRACK, DIRT TRACK

I mainly picked it because it's already designed around a cutout, and I have the Zero DSR which has a high mudguard by default and wanted to have a fairing that didn't require fundamental frontend rework. Once we started mocking it up, it's been clear that the mudguard swings just underneath it relatively easily, and I'll likely use spacers to push the mudguard down a bit more and bake up some polycarbonate to fill in the cutout in front of the headlamp.

I did manage to show up for the 2016 Vetter Challenge at the Corbin factory, using my windscreen. I *believe* I placed third to David Ewart on his Zero S and Vic Valdez's streamliner, which was fine as a first showing, especially since I was still using the off-road-oriented Pirelli MT-60 tires that came with the bike and no wheel covers. There were also a lot of headwinds and high speed running and I tried my best not to tuck to see how well I could do that way.

I've since replaced my rear tire with a 90/10 Metzler Tourance Next and will get to the front when it wears down... some day... Zero tires wear down very slowly.

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Old 11-30-2016, 04:09 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Here's my bike as it was set up the day of the challenge.

I had a slightly compromised Givi rack at the time (insurance replaced this rack with a new one on my 2013DS when a car knocked it over pretty hard) and I'd quickly mounted it on the DSR the night before with my Bags-Connection Aero cases, which I like quite a bit and are reasonably aerodynamic. I bought those originally for my V-Strom after noticing the mileage penalty I was paying for the stock TraX case kit Suzuki was selling (TraX reduced 58mpg to 48mpg in headwinds at 65mph, Aero brought it back up to 55mpg).

I've since installed a wider sturdy Happy Trails rack to support a tail or something, but it'd be nice if there were really slim aerodynamic side cases to bolt on, or even slimmer cases to bolt to the inside of the rack and have the outside frame a tail.

Come to think of it, it was seeing Vic's bike in detail that day that inspired me to start with the wheel covers.

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Old 11-30-2016, 09:40 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
Fred Hayes uses the Airtech dustbin and tail section on his Vetter Challenge diesel bike. Some of the other riders noticed he had some wobble at speed so a bit of vertical fin might be useful. Check with low&slow for his input.
That's interesting. That fairing was designed for Land Speed Racing (LSR), so you would expect it to be extremely stable as speeds increase - especially in that range.
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Old 11-30-2016, 01:16 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briantrice View Post
For the record, I'm only a Supercharger customer who does technical documentation and testing in exchange for early access. But yes there's a V2, I've seen a prototype and looked over the specifications and sourcing, and it has a much better story all around. I think it'll be much more quickly deliverable, too.
Saw some new specs on the other forum and it looks promising, the possibility to maybe charge above 1C would be amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by briantrice View Post
So, the rear ABS plastic has been reasonably robust and I've had CAD drawings for fabrication for a while, but my front set were shattered by a rock at highway speeds, which was quite concerning and that's why you see Coroplast in my photos. The Zero front wheel for 2015+ models has 5 stanchions supporting the brake disc on one side as well which makes fitment trickier.

I've decided based on this to make a custom Moon disc order and will clear the stanchions by drilling holes. I'll probably line the edges with rubber trim and backing with a little foam to reduce wear, but I need to work out how to mount them against or through the cast wheel robustly. Probably stainless steel bolts of the right length with nyloc nuts and nylon washers. Any thoughts?

Ref Starburst Motorcycle MOON Discs - 16"
Hmm I'm holding off moondisks for the moment, I live in an area that has gusty storms. Even on my XJ600 with top case I sometimes have to struggle to stay in my lane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
Fred Hayes uses the Airtech dustbin and tail section on his Vetter Challenge diesel bike. Some of the other riders noticed he had some wobble at speed so a bit of vertical fin might be useful. Check with low&slow for his input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by briantrice View Post
Right. He had the MV Agusta fairing:
MV AGUSTA ROAD RACE DUSTBIN FAIRING, SEAT, FENDER, CAFE, SINGLE, 175, disco volante
2014 Craig Vetter Fuel Economy Challenge, Vintage Days

I'm using the DBL2 featured on the CB750:
CB750 CAFE BAGGER DUSTBIN SADDLEBAGS SINGLE OVERHEAD CAM, CB 750, SOHC STREET TRACKER, DIRTTRACK, DIRT TRACK

I mainly picked it because it's already designed around a cutout, and I have the Zero DSR which has a high mudguard by default and wanted to have a fairing that didn't require fundamental frontend rework. Once we started mocking it up, it's been clear that the mudguard swings just underneath it relatively easily, and I'll likely use spacers to push the mudguard down a bit more and bake up some polycarbonate to fill in the cutout in front of the headlamp.

I did manage to show up for the 2016 Vetter Challenge at the Corbin factory, using my windscreen. I *believe* I placed third to David Ewart on his Zero S and Vic Valdez's streamliner, which was fine as a first showing, especially since I was still using the off-road-oriented Pirelli MT-60 tires that came with the bike and no wheel covers. There were also a lot of headwinds and high speed running and I tried my best not to tuck to see how well I could do that way.

I've since replaced my rear tire with a 90/10 Metzler Tourance Next and will get to the front when it wears down... some day... Zero tires wear down very slowly.
I'm working on a non-dirt front fender for the DS now, I'll post some stuff when I got results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by briantrice View Post
Here's my bike as it was set up the day of the challenge.

I had a slightly compromised Givi rack at the time (insurance replaced this rack with a new one on my 2013DS when a car knocked it over pretty hard) and I'd quickly mounted it on the DSR the night before with my Bags-Connection Aero cases, which I like quite a bit and are reasonably aerodynamic. I bought those originally for my V-Strom after noticing the mileage penalty I was paying for the stock TraX case kit Suzuki was selling (TraX reduced 58mpg to 48mpg in headwinds at 65mph, Aero brought it back up to 55mpg).

I've since installed a wider sturdy Happy Trails rack to support a tail or something, but it'd be nice if there were really slim aerodynamic side cases to bolt on, or even slimmer cases to bolt to the inside of the rack and have the outside frame a tail.

Come to think of it, it was seeing Vic's bike in detail that day that inspired me to start with the wheel covers.
Those bags do look good as a temporally solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
That's interesting. That fairing was designed for Land Speed Racing (LSR), so you would expect it to be extremely stable as speeds increase - especially in that range.
Could be some side winds I guess.. That's on of the main reasons for me not to go dustbin.

Current to list:
- Work on the new front fender
- Find a sealed led headlight that is slightly below 7 inch(the hole in my fairing is a 16,4x16cm oval)


- Find some led indicators for the front side
- Drop stuff at shop
- Wait
- Enjoy more comfort and hopefully a better range.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:01 PM   #35 (permalink)
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LSR runs are done in low or no wind conditions I believe. A dust bin needs enough fin area behind the CG for the center of pressure to keep it stable. Cargo containers count as fin area as well.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:14 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmo View Post
Hmm I'm holding off moondisks for the moment, I live in an area that has gusty storms. Even on my XJ600 with top case I sometimes have to struggle to stay in my lane.
My current wheel covers have a noticeable effect but have been ok (the rear makes the bike more stable, really, and then the front takes some of that benefit away). I think the Moon discs would fair better by being a bit less flat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmo View Post
I'm working on a non-dirt front fender for the DS now, I'll post some stuff when I got results.
Looking forward to it. Especially if the result is reproducible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmo View Post
Those bags do look good as a temporally solution.
They're the best I've been able to get my hands on. They are scuffed quite a bit on one side now from a get-off at 5mph (bumped into a car that braked hard right when I was distracted). I'm hoping to dig up something narrower or more streamlined for cheap, or to semi-destructively modify the cases to enclose the mounting plate (holes with grommets made where the mounting struts join) and use the inner waterproof liner bag primarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmo View Post
Could be some side winds I guess.. That's on of the main reasons for me not to go dustbin.
I'm hoping that the DBL2 openings allow enough crossflow to mitigate the risk there. The 2015+ DS suspension is tall enough that crosswind effects are easier to deal with up to a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmo View Post
Current to list:
- Work on the new front fender
- Find a sealed led headlight that is slightly below 7 inch(the hole in my fairing is a 16,4x16cm oval)


- Find some led indicators for the front side
- Drop stuff at shop
- Wait
- Enjoy more comfort and hopefully a better range.
If you can get the shop to provide a parts list and good description of how they did the work, I'd appreciate it! One-off efforts are fine but I feel like making sure efforts are documented to grow our collective knowledge and so each successive effort can start more quickly and hopefully scale.
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Old 12-02-2016, 03:36 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I'll ask them to document the process, but it is mostly some bracket adapting.

About the fender, I've procured a BMW GS fender. It is 19' and should be roughly the same width. The shop isn't sure if they can adapt it but for €30 I'm willing to gamble. Part of why I chose this one is because they should be readily available everywhere.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Small update, fiddled a bit with the windscreen again, this time mounting it more in an aerodynamic position. Still being helmet buffered like crazy but a small 20km test ride with and without gave an improvement of about 10%

Tomorrow I'll do a longer one to minimize the variables.
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Old 12-14-2016, 11:04 AM   #39 (permalink)
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The bike is at the shop now, new fender fits really good. I will post some pictures when I get home.
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Old 12-14-2016, 02:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Photo time!


A BMW GS front fender seems to fit nicely after adapting the mounts:


A first impression of the fairing:


It will be a bit lower and angled forward but it looks promising. Now we have to wait and let the panel beater do it's work.

Oh and after this he is interesting in making a mold for a bit more aerodynamic rear that has storage capability.

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