Zoleco: custom aerodynamic car, 1.0L Suzuki drivetrain

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by zoltanbod

I looked at the modded impact.Looks like the nose on the Zoleco a longer gentler arcing point along with my my hood.My windshield slope is 28 degrees up the center,can't tell on the impact.My windshield arc continues into and over the roof and falling away down the back window at a gentle 17 degrees.the sides of mine taper in from the front axcle to the tail at 24 degrees.My wheel openings are smoother.The half tear drop shape theoretically has a Cd of .09,so for argument sake lets guess mine at .12,so i think that caculates out to a 27.9lbs drag at 65mph? What do you think? I can hardly wait to do real world testing and compare it to our speculations.

But the half tear drop at 0.09 lacks ground clearance, wheels, panel gaps, door handles, a mirror, wipers, and a radiator.

Drag force is not as interesting as drag power, P=0.5*Cd*A*rho*V^3, and for Cd=0.15, it's 6HP @ 65mph.

Jason's right: you're going to want to check for flow separation on your body plug. If it's present over more than a few square feet, you may want to lengthen the body.

[wdb]

Interesting car, even more interesting discussions in the thread.

If I could afford to buy a car just for commuting and errands -- I can afford to do that, and have done it in point of fact -- I would buy something like this. But it would have to do a few things before I'd consider it economically feasible:

• pay for itself in energy cost savings (compared to, say, an Accord)
• get me there and back without me having to jump through hoops
• keep me safe, relatively comfortable, and moderately entertained
• be cheap to run and easy to maintain
• last a long time

If I were motivated to design such a car, and my goal was to revolutionize the way Americans drive, those would be my primary criteria. I'm thinking more along the lines of a teardrop Tata Nano than a $100K+ Tesla.

[cfg83]

Neil -

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

I think to get as low as even Cd 0.15, you'll have to have wheel skirts -- wait does it have front wheel skirts? Can you post some photos?

Here's a photo from one of the albums where you can see the front wheel :



CarloSW2

[zoltanbod]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

So are you going to try the calculator?

Can you explain how this vehicle will get 2x-3x the economy of the donor car- "57" x 2 = 114mpg, to x 3 = 171mpg?

This has been incubating for years. Howcome you passed up the perfect fund-raising opportunity, that of winning $10,000,000 from the X-Prize contest?

How was the frontal area measured?

To get that far in the chassis/shell development you must have done cg/weight estimations/calcs (especially for a trike!) - can you share?

Why would you put so much added complexity into a power master cylinder for such a light vehicle? Stick a non-power boosted m. cyl. in there and toss the linkage and complexity.

I have the impression the fuel tank goes in the far rear. Is that so? How big a tank? How heavy? Have the effects of having that weight on the single-wheel end been estimated?

What aerodynamic development has been done? CFD? Tunnel test? Road tuft test? Smoke test? Eyeball it test?

Why go to plug and mold when there has been no proof of concept? If a prototype is built first then changes can be made and performances quantified. If you have been around cars as long as you say you know it would be the height of naivety to think it was so perfect the first time that no changes would be made!

Why would it need to be modular? Regular production cars can be modded to be gas, diesel, electric, hybrid... whatever without being modular.

I want to know more about the radial steam engine. Sourced? Scratch built? Fueled by what?

When i plug the data into the HP to overcome drag formula usig Cd of.15 as a reference point i come up with 6.0 Hp. If one HP /hr @ 65mph uses .440 lbs of gasoline then 6 HP will use 2.64 lbs/hr @65mph or 147.7 mpg. Interesting result. What am i missing? A big factor in pushing me to begin this project actually was the x-prise .Then about a year into it i'm going ya right,never be done in time,still motivates me though.Can hardly wait to see who wins! Meanwhile i will continue plugging away.You can find all the body dimensions on another post i made.I estimate my cg to be 3 to 4" lower and slightly forward from the donor car.I am using the oem power master from the Forsa simply because its a matched set .I need the engine compartment space for other things.Fuel tank location could be at the rear or not depending on the way it all balances out.The aerodynamic development of this car is on going as you can tell.Right now it is a shape that should lend itself well to fine tunning and still fit into the required size ,look and feel that i want to present.I did alot of prelimnary research on the shape and then tried to make that shape fit my vehicle dimensions.When i get back to the body i will be doing numerous wind tuft tests as i finalize the body contours. Good time for the next video.I do not by any means believe that this car will be perfect the first time out but the more input i recieve and assimulate the better it will be.I like the modular idea because it allows me to match the engine/trans/suspension as a unit in its own support framework and not have to mod the original Suzuki framework which is probably alot smaller than a 4cyl would be,or what ever else i would want to try.The radial external combustion steam engine i came across was the Cyclone invented by Harry Schoell.

[Bicycle Bob]

You can probably bolt in the 1.3 litre, 4-cyl version of the Suzuki engine with standard parts. I can't imagine needing more power than a turbo 3, though.

[zoltanbod]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

You can probably bolt in the 1.3 litre, 4-cyl version of the Suzuki engine with standard parts. I can't imagine needing more power than a turbo 3, though.

You're right the Eco version doesn't need more power.But if you wanted to go 200mph the HP to drag formula says you would need 176 HP in the Zolego to maintain 200.

[zoltanbod]

Originally Posted by JasonG

It seems the rear shape is too abrupt.
I predict detached air flow. 23 deg is too steep.
Try to take it for a drive with the old drivetrain and do some tuft testing before you commit to a mold.

The 23 degree taper from just behind the front wheel area to the rear is in a slight arc for an average of 23 degrees.I will be flow tuft testing this area along with the rest of the body and will fine tune areas if required.Thanks.

[Frank Lee]

When I put 1400 lbs, .008 Crr, 21.5 sq ft, .15 Cd, and .9 drivetrain efficiency into the calculator it says 93 mpg @ 55 mph. Achieving that would be great!

Since there's still ambiguity about it, 23 sq ft w/all else the same nets 88 mpg. Still great.

On that note, .15 Cd is mighty optimistic; assume .20 w/23 sq ft and 72 mpg pops out.

Assume .25 and 60 mpg pops out.

The calc says my car should get 40 mpg @ 55 mph. Without a scangauge I can't tell, but it just might be doing that- at a steady state 55. In the real world of starts and stops and cold starts it loses about 10-15%, to end up at 34-36 mpg. Apply that correction and 93 becomes 79-84; 88 become 75-79; 72 becomes 61-65; 60 becomes 51-54.

There is little to go on at this point besides these vague assumptions but at least we can guess a likely range.

How are you going to do tuft tests? Are you going to make it drive after all?

The Cyclone steamer looks promising but it may be a while before you can get one...

[zoltanbod]

Thanks for the caculator input.Numbers and formulas can be fun .Reality, now that will be something to get excited about as the milege meter reads off. But for now we speculate .Well,the tuft testing i thought i could take those 2 big spray booth fans that i have and build a makeshift wind tunnel.I'm not sure what air speed i could simulate ,but those things blow pretty hard when you are on the business end.If i can't get enough air speed for the entire car maybe i could put a form fitting divider down the centerline of the car and flow a section at a time.We will have to see how feasible that is .Another engine under development is this Axial Vector Engine ,interesting claims.

[zoltanbod]

I just read a stockpatrol report on Axial Vector,looks scary from the financial side.