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Old 02-22-2010, 05:04 AM   #101 (permalink)
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good morning zoltan!
did you make any notable progress on the car (physical labor) this past week?
don't bust any knuckles. -- i always do.

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Old 02-22-2010, 10:44 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Necessary work precedent

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvit View Post
good morning zoltan!
did you make any notable progress on the car (physical labor) this past week?
don't bust any knuckles. -- i always do.
I had a porting job come in so i spent the weekend on that to make some extra money.So i didn't get any physical labor done on the car.however i did a bunch of measurements and now have an accurate frontal area number.Which Frank was kind enough to plug into the mileage formula.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:41 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Zoltan,

I just stumbled across your thread.

Kudos to you on a beautiful design!
I think you have a great starting place.

I like the idea of the two people in front with two smaller folks in back. With my wife going to have a baby soon, we need at least a car that can handle two people plus a car seat.

As efficient as tandem seating can be, it is not "mainstream". People think it's weird. I think folks like the shape, but if there was something about the doors or seating that was really unusual, it would be a turn-off. That's one thing I found out about the Tesla when I got to sit in it. It's really hard to get in and out of! A friend of mine test-drove a Volt and said that wasn't real easy entry/exit either.

For the final drive system, I would encourage a gasoline/plug-in electric as a minimum. I am a fan of battery-electric vehicles, but for good range, they tend to get expensive or heavy real fast. I think that PHEVs may be the best of both worlds. (I am secretly considering converting the Electro-Metro into a PHEV with a propane generator.)

As to the theoretical Grandma's house 35 miles away, a Chevy Volt could get there without a drop of gas, a Nissan Leaf could do it with one battery tied behind it's back, and even a 35-year-old Citicar could get there.

That said, our culture does have certain expectations of cars, including that they be able to go rather far on a single trip.

I am always amazed at the response on the masses on the internet. Many of my web videos are met with replies of the ignorant, who are convinced of their own perpetual motion machines, or the critics, who would rather destroy some other's work, rather than to attempt any of their own. (Don't let the Muggles get you down!)

It's great when you find positive folks who help support creativity and collaboration. The Open Source EV Controller on this forum is a GREAT example of this.

One thing I will say about designing the body before the drivetrain is this: drivetrain effects body design. For an EV, you may want to put all that ballast to use nice and low, like built into the floor. For an internal combustion engine, room is needed for radiator, exhaust, etc. (I LOVE the grill though!) I have no idea what would be needed for the steam engine, but I can only imagine that it has it's own unique space and shape requirements.

I'm sure you already know of it, but this project reminds me just a bit of the RQRiley XR3 which is sold as just a set of plans right now. That is designed as a two-seater diesel/electric hybrid. A friend of mine has the plans and wants to build his as pure batt-electric.



Your story also reminds me a little bit of Bob Beaumont and the Citicar. He asked Club Car to build him a custom electric golf cart with a windshield and headlights. Once it was built, he literally drove it to Wall-Street to attract investors. In the end, he built well over two-thousand cars. Later, he designed the Tropica - an all-electric roadster decades before the Tesla. Only twenty-some of those cars were built, but they still have plenty of fans.



Bob's story is recorded in the book, THE LOST CORD, by Barbara Taylor. Parts of the story are sad, but overall, I found it amazingly inspirational at one man with a vision could do. Last spring, I met Bob Beaumont, Barbara Taylor, Bob Stone, and some of the others involved in the production of those vehicles.

I also agree with some of the comments made earlier about the Aptera trying too hard. There doesn't have to be any one single vehicle which is all things to all people. I just wish that there were some vehicles that tried a little harder at being better. Unfortunately, our commercial/capitalist/consumer culture makes that a bit difficult.

For now, I'll stick to my Electro-Metro, but if I could purchase a Zoleco off a used car lot, I sure would.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:50 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Thank you Mr Bennelson for your kind words about the Zoleco.I assume you saw my videos on Youtube about the development of the car to date.If you didn't i will give you a brief run down.The project began with my body shape designed around maximum aerodynamic efficiency.But this was done over a 88 Forsa turbo car which had all the original body cut away leaving the front suspension ,engine/trans ,firewall and floor pan for dimensional referancing.Then the body was shaped to fit this drive system, come to a point in the back and still seat four.However i made the spaceframe so that the entire front unit can be removed to allow for differant systems that we might like to try without having to cut up the first frame design.The frame has a backbone stucture leading from the engine to the rear swing axle.Within this area i can fit the exhaust,fuel tank,heat exchanger and a few batteries if needed.The radiator and starting battery will be installed behind the crash absorbing front bumper area in each fender.Thanks again for your comments,now if i could only convince Jay Leno that he needs to buy the first Zoleco to compensate for the poor mileage of his Ecojet!!
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:20 PM   #105 (permalink)
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i don't like Jay Leno, but i hope he buys 2 zolecos.
one for him, one for an ebay charity auction.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:07 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Enough about Jay Leno, tell us, have you made progress on the car?

I'd like to see your tuft and coastdown test results.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:47 PM   #107 (permalink)
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i'm liking this car - homogenous design with no exposed front wheels should give the aerodynamics a good boost.

have you combined the radiator vents at the front and side with the wheel wells or is it separate?

even better is a different/more experimental drive train to boot! I also agree with at least 2 seats at the front (much more sociable and better for couples).

In terms of finding investors it can be tricky - i know of a few horror stories esp. if the people making the thing don't pull through (and the guy is like 'where is my money!'). Many investors won't touch a project until they have something solid they can see, they are not going to put money on something for the love of it - if they are well accomplished business men they will easily want to make a fast return which might not be something being offered right now.

car shows etc is a great way to start, whats for sure is you can start gettin your money back by driving the thing! it will also attract attention in the street, a very good way of getting the word around.

as for patents i'm up for discussing this further if anyone else is - i think most people who are educated in the art could see how a thing works and even duplicate it to get around a patent so in that respect a patent is worth very little except if someone wants to buy you out, for example. I am speaking from limited experience but I would voice a concern over the possible limits/downfalls of a patent even if you manage to get one.

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Old 04-09-2010, 09:54 PM   #108 (permalink)
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That would be fantastic!
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:55 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I am glad you like the car!Thanks.
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:12 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Out of nessecity i have been working 6 days a week for the past two months trying to play catch up on this recession thing.That doesn't leave me alot of energy to work the car.I won't be doing any driving tests on the car for quite awhile for right now it is welded to my chassis table as the frame is being developed.I have however decided to remove the rear wings ,redesign and raise the location of them as well as reducing the rake to 2 or 3 degrees.I don't know if you have heard of the Daily Planet TV show on Discovery channel, they have been in touch with me about doing a segment about the car-however they would like to see it running for that to happen.So once the chassis is rolling and the body reconfigured a bit i will get on the engine system.

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