Zoleco: custom aerodynamic car, 1.0L Suzuki drivetrain

[Frank Lee]

Thanks for answering.

I won't be an investor or a purchaser, but luvit luvsit.

[zoltanbod]

Your welcome and thanks.

[Bicycle Bob]

I have to admire the general concept here. What toubles me is the lack of a team effort. There are dozens of research groups as well as hundreds of individual inventors working on just engine efficiency. To expect one man to master all aspects of automotive design and construction is beyond reason. However, it is also difficult to build and maintain a team. One engineer plus one engineer minus meeting time equals the output of 1.3 engineers, as a rough estimate of the average. Actual results run from about .2 to 3. This is discouraging to the efficiency nut, but our work would have no social relevance without all that messy reality out there. To connect with it, a team can also expand laterally, bringing in, for instance, a video editor. Those factors also make budgets baloon, which is why successful startups are so rare. The management needs great luck and skill.

I was doing well at putting together a company of part-time volunteers working, as I was, for shares. There is a lot of unenmployed talent out there, and a lot of people who want to build a better future. We ran into trouble, though, when an investor came in to help, and then took over with bad management. If you can first find a good people person who wants to see your company succeed, it might be off to a good start.

One tip on trike design - the forward weight bias can be overdone. I set mine to lift the back wheel if the brakes went on full, on good pavement, on a 10% downslope. However, it is probably not OK to design for average tires, and just plackard it against sticky tires.

[Frank Lee]

The focus on rich celebrities, investors, and costly hand-builds rather than completing the nearly complete car (could be finished and driving with very little money and a few week's work if he wanted to) reveals the true motivation here.

Then there's the content of what he said- just one example being the 2x- 3x fe gain claim. Don't think I'll sweep that under the rug.

[Bicycle Bob]

I see a lot more focus on getting something built, and a unique car can be a good investment for someone building their own celebrity, regardless of the high cost per mile. Someone building this much may well just have a vague idea of where to get help, not a focus on scamming people. I figured that Benneton would have made a great sponsor for a velomobile racing team, but I didn't know anybody with a business suit to approach them.

[cfg83]

Frank -

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

The focus on rich celebrities, investors, and costly hand-builds rather than completing the nearly complete car (could be finished and driving with very little money and a few week's work if he wanted to) reveals the true motivation here.

Then there's the content of what he said- just one example being the 2x- 3x fe gain claim. Don't think I'll sweep that under the rug.

I have no problem with it. They can afford it and it serve the double-purpose of free advertising (celebrities come with built-in advertising). I consider it to be analogous to hybrid drivetrains being offered at first in high-profit-margin luxury SUVs rather than slim-profit-margin econoboxes. It helps defray costs for the manufacturer, and (hopefully) later on allows the technology to filter down in the long run.

CarloSW2

[thatguitarguy]

I think it's the vision of one man or a small team that can put things together and make things happen. The problem is development money. If you don't have it, you can spend all your otherwise inventing time trying to get it. When you bring in people who want to make your vision their own because they have money, you start inventing by committee and the whole thing has more of a tendency to fall apart than to come together, ala Aptera, and so many others. Or you can try to sell drugs like DeLorean...

[luvit]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

The focus on rich celebrities, investors, and costly hand-builds rather than completing the nearly complete car (could be finished and driving with very little money and a few week's work if he wanted to) reveals the true motivation here.

Then there's the content of what he said- just one example being the 2x- 3x fe gain claim. Don't think I'll sweep that under the rug.

frank, listen. i;m not picking on you.
the statements "costly hand-builts", "nearly completed", "little money", "few weeks work if he wanted to", "true motivation".
these are all relevant to what? relevant to frank? he has another life. the video clearly states he works on the car on sundays.
your words cut. what you convey may cause someone to hold back an ounce of potential. that ounce could cause a landslide towards positive direction.

get off your arse and do it the frank-lee-way. show the world the right way is your way. i'm sure you can do more than just removing all the seats from your tempo for weight reduction.

[AeroModder]

I like your idea, and I think your celebrity endorsement plan is a great way to get publicity. By just making a single prototype and brining it to car shows, all you're doing is exposing that single car, but by marketing it to sell, you're effectively creating a market for your product.

It definitely looks like you know what you're doing. My advice for down the road would be to look at redesigning the chassis with a simpler and easier to construct design. You may even want to look at a carbon fiber monocoque design. The race team I'm a member of is using a monocoque chassis for our mini-forumula with G10 inserts for the suspention and engine attachments, and we've found it works quite well.

One concern of mine is from the 3-wheeled design. I'm interested in seeing what kind of lateral forces it can withstand before rolling.


I'm looking forward to hearing the specs of the completed prototype! (Obviously, you can't get all the data Frank was asking for until you actually have it running.)

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by luvit

frank, listen. i;m not picking on you.
the statements "costly hand-builts", "nearly completed", "little money", "few weeks work if he wanted to", "true motivation".
these are all relevant to what? relevant to frank? he has another life. the video clearly states he works on the car on sundays.
your words cut. what you convey may cause someone to hold back an ounce of potential. that ounce could cause a landslide towards positive direction.

get off your arse and do it the frank-lee-way. show the world the right way is your way. i'm sure you can do more than just removing all the seats from your tempo for weight reduction.

They are relevant because they show what the true motivation is.

See, if the true motivation was to build this car he'd be talking about, and finishing, the car.

Look, I totally support projects such as this. Yes! It's true! And I totally will pick apart thinly disguised money making schemes too- think Aptera, K&N, Palmear, etc. If there would have been no mention of money and grandiose plans, and all the vids were devoted to the vehicle, I would have shown 99% support right from the get-go.

There are some of the classic red flags in the vids and in the posts- crazy and ambiguous claims for one. Tell me, what did you see that you thought was patent worthy? I musta missed it.