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Old 06-29-2016, 12:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Elegant Forced Auto Stop (Insight)

Hey guys, this is a development thread, I finally got it working on page 4. I now have a finished product, which is a small arduino pcb clone programmed to generate the wave used in conjunction with a spdt switch. If you have an Insight and would like one, they are for sale, send me a pm here or on Insight Central. There is a thread in buy-and-sell on IC where availability info and prices can be found, but I will respond to private messages here also.


################

Background Info:

So some guy on IC tried to make a chip that would trick the car into thinking conditions were 'right' for auto stop, and it would let you AS basically on command. (This is NOT suitable for CVT, only for 5MT.) I've been trying to duplicate his work, he rolled his Insight a couple years ago.

For AS in the manual the car wants:
- Neutral
- Low Speed (< 19MPH + deceleration)
- Outside temp above 32F
- Engine sorta warm (I think about 120F+ going by my ScanGauge)
- IMA not too low (no bg charge)

IMA, engine temp, and shifter in neutral are all things you probably want to be required before you auto-stop, but OAT and speed are things we don't really want as a factor. That's where EFAS comes in.

The main component is a switch where if you press it then the VSS signal going to the ECM is replaced with a spammed signal from a 555 Timer of a square wave of about 2HZ, to make the car think it's going like 1mph. An optional secondary component is for, when the switch is pressed, the OAT sensor gets a47k ohm resistor wired into it, making the ECM think the outside temperature is warm.

Now, engineers and electricians, please shield your eyes; everyone else look at the horror I have constructed:



The relay on the left is currently disconnected from everything. On the lower middle is a 555 timer. It outputs at a frequency higher than I would like, but I'm having some issues that I'll explain soon which need to be resolved first I think. The weird PCB just above the 555 timer is a voltage regulator. I'm taking +12V from the car and dropping it down to +5V as measured by a multimeter.




The switch I'm holding, centre goes to ECM, right comes from VSS sensor, and left comes from the 555 timer.

Everything is all torn apart still because I'm having some issues with it, but maybe people who know more about electronics or Insights can weigh in on this issue.

1: I don't know where to find a +5v source, hence the regulator device. If I knew where one was I'd use that instead.

2: When the switch is set to the right, everything works normally, car drives along reading the correct speed. When the switch is set to the left it is SUPPOSED to get a signal from the 555 timer of a square wave and the VSS is cut out of the equation.

Apparently that's not the case.

Observed behaviour when I press the switch to the left is that the car's speedometer still works normally, but auto-stop will never happen. I think the ECM is somehow getting a combined signal at the wrong voltage or something from the VSS and the 555 timer and to play it safe it won't auto stop. I'm absolutely baffled as to how the VSS signal is going through an open switch into the ECM. Does anyone have any ideas what might be going on here?


Last edited by Natalya; 09-22-2016 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:55 AM   #2 (permalink)
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impressive. I'm sorry, I cant be of any help.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Holy cow! That's pretty cool looking, but I'm way too non-electrical minded for that kind of undertaking.

If you're doing it because you like electronics, that's an awesome project since basically everybody with an Insight would like their car to autostop at higher speeds.

But if you're just looking for the easiest way to make it happen, I had Daox make me a custom shift knob with a kill switch, regen button and clutch override switch for my Insights. I think it does exactly what you're looking for without a bunch of work or cost. I had maybe fifty bucks in the kill switch, regen button, clutch override and custom 3D printed shift knob altogether

I can kill the engine at any speed, autostart at any speed, keep it from background charging on the highway, and get full regen using only engine braking at the touch of a button.

Well, I could when my IMA was functioning It still works on my first Insight which my son owns now.

Here's the link to my first install on Turtle:

With my gas savings, I bought this! (2000 Honda Insight)
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Old 06-29-2016, 10:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Isn't yours an injector kill switch? This doesnt kill the injectors it tricks the car into auto stop so you don't get the Christmas Tree warning lights.
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yeah it does do that, but it never bothered me since it still reads the mph, mpg and autostarts and you still have brake pedal.

It would cool to have autostop at any speed without the warning lights though, since I'm pretty sure the electronics work straight off the tiny 12V when you hit the kill switch (the headlights dim until you start it back up) and seem to work off the IMA when in true autostop
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I messaged Darkfish on there I think nearly 2 months ago, he messaged me and said he still builds the plug-and-plug version, but was out of the country and would get back to me early June. I didn't hear from him, so I just shot him another message. I'm glad the effort isn't lost, though. Might be hiring YOU to build one for me. haha!
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have an injector kill switch setup on my Gen 1 Insight. One down side is, since it's not a true AutoStop, the 12V battery is not maintained at 13.5V as it usually is. Mine drops to 11.x volts pretty quickly because I use a smaller battery for weight savings.

If I had a true spoofed autostop like Natalya is attempting to build, it would maintain 13.5V with headlights on - great for night driving.

BTW, if the engine is not spinning (as in engine off situation), the hybrid battery is not charging. The generator/IMA motor is bolted between the engine output shaft and the flywheel. If the engine IS spinning, you're using some energy source to make that spin happen, especially if you're using the spin to generate electricity.
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Old 06-29-2016, 08:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucepick View Post
I have an injector kill switch setup on my Gen 1 Insight. One down side is, since it's not a true AutoStop, the 12V battery is not maintained at 13.5V as it usually is. Mine drops to 11.x volts pretty quickly because I use a smaller battery for weight savings.

If I had a true spoofed autostop like Natalya is attempting to build, it would maintain 13.5V with headlights on - great for night driving.

BTW, if the engine is not spinning (as in engine off situation), the hybrid battery is not charging. The generator/IMA motor is bolted between the engine output shaft and the flywheel. If the engine IS spinning, you're using some energy source to make that spin happen, especially if you're using the spin to generate electricity.
How did you do your kill-switch?
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Old 06-30-2016, 09:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalya View Post

1: I don't know where to find a +5v source, hence the regulator device. If I knew where one was I'd use that instead.


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Old 06-30-2016, 09:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Unfortunately I don't have the pages that say what those abbreviations are...

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