The long road to Bonneville, goals are 40mpg useable pickup in the 150 club

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by freebeard

... I've been thinking El Mirage instead, of only because of the corrosion. I don't know how those bare-metal Model T do it.

You gotta really wash the undercarriage for months. Before I new better, I took my daughter to World of Speed in 2012 in my wife's 2010 Subaru. I spent weeks flushing salt from the undercarriage. A couple years later the exhaust system developed a premature failure due to rust *on top* of parts of the system. In the end I replaced the part at a cost of a couple hundred bucks (did its myself). Apparently, I should have been much more aggressive in washing the undercarriage. So even though it had been a couple years, I got at it again, BIG TIME.

El Mirage would be great for our purposes at EM. Our speeds are just not super high and they have about 1 mile to a mile and a half of useful track. I would love to participate in any good project as part of a support team.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by gumby79

I hit 84 by 1/2 mile the rest of the thime was spent fighting with the transmission to stay in 4th luse 5mph when it would grab 3rd then upshift as I brought the throttle under 75% and reapply the power


Per the rule book
Roll cage .. 130club 3pt harness ok so no cage required
150 club 2point(pt) cage to hold the shoulder belts of the required 5/6 pt harness at the proper hight.
175 full cage.
Race capable fire suppression@175 +( they Overlook the fire extinguisher in the 130 and 150 because the Marine style mounts just turned that two and a half pound fire extinguisher into a 5 lb chunk of aluminum hit me/you upside the head)
Nomex 150+
Hans 175+
Current helmet check.
Dreem Big Chisel Down To Reality

I've got some used gear if it will qualify:
Kirky aluminum racing seat
Simpson 5-way harness
I've got 2-firesuits but we'll have to check on specs and size
7-1/4'' Bell Star helmet Snell- approved
large Simpson racing gloves
fire retardant underwear
fire retardant balaclava
10-1/2'' Simpson racing shoes/socks
3-parachutes if those can be helpful
Let me know!

[freebeard]

You gotta really wash the undercarriage for months.... I spent weeks flushing salt from the undercarriage.

As aerohead knows, I drove to downtown Wendover each night and used a coin-op car wash to spray the undercarriage. Then jacked it up at home and washed it three more times. Ultimately, when I totaled the car on black ice, we found that the steering gearbox was almost frozen.

An FUV would be hard pressed to top 100mph.

[gumby79]

Most "H" or fasters speed rated tires eather have no load capacity or are 28" or smaller or10-30"wide drag rears.

To day I've found some options

32.18"D 235/55r22 (104w) 1984lbs 168mph $154 usd


31.41"D 275/25r26 (98w) 1653lbs 168mph $215 sud


30.04"D 255/50R20 (109Y) 2271lbs 186mph


B stock rpm +.20 od + 3.08 gear swap.
C as above + 3500 gov spring.

Now comes the question witch one will have the best coefficient of rolling resistance?
What effect will the different wheel sizes have?
Options 1 is 140.5 good for 130club +150club rated
option 2 is 137. 2mph@100% transfer of rpm. (The 518 non lockup torque converter has demonstrated a 5% loss of RPM)
Option 3 131.2mph this option will requires the 3500rp. Gov spring for the 130 club . And will be useable allthe way to 175 + to qualify for the long course.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by gumby79

Most "H" or fasters speed rated tires eather have no load capacity or are 28" or smaller or10-30"wide drag rears.

To day I've found some options

32.18"D 235/55r22 (104w) 1984lbs 168mph $154 usd


31.41"D 275/25r26 (98w) 1653lbs 168mph $215 sud


30.04"D 255/50R20 (109Y) 2271lbs 186mph


B stock rpm +.20 od + 3.08 gear swap.
C as above + 3500 gov spring.

Now comes the question witch one will have the best coefficient of rolling resistance?
What effect will the different wheel sizes have?
Options 1 is 140.5 good for 130club +150club rated
option 2 is 137. 2mph@100% transfer of rpm. (The 518 non lockup torque converter has demonstrated a 5% loss of RPM)
Option 3 131.2mph this option will requires the 3500rp. Gov spring for the 130 club . And will be useable allthe way to 175 + to qualify for the long course.

I'm unsure about the effect of rolling resistance.
When I ran,a 147-mph Mini Cooper would only do 129-mph because of damp salt track conditions.
136-mph Mazda-3s could only do 118-mph.
The efficiency of the tires may be essentially destroyed if you have any rain.
Question,if you do 130,will they let you turn around and run the 2-mile 150 course? With only 2-miles to hit 150,you might have to gear it for just over 150 and hope to hit it.
If so,you'd know a lot more about her performance under real track conditions,which would help you sort out gearing for the final assault.
Are there any online computers for top speed at a given set of parameters?

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by aerohead

... Are there any online computers for top speed at a given set of parameters?

Did a little research and I think EM's own RR/drag/HP calculator could be used with these gearing/speed calculators usefully:

Top Speed Calculator
Car Speed Calculator

james

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

Did a little research and I think EM's own RR/drag/HP calculator could be used with these gearing/speed calculators usefully:

Top Speed Calculator
Car Speed Calculator

james

Thanks!
Something I've never investigated,was a calculator offered by HOT ROD Magazine in the 1950s,60s.
They were able to tell you your distance to top speed,which I've never seen before.Since the trucks load varies the entire length of the run,the calculation has to deal with all the transient dynamics,combining the calculus of the R-R coincidentally with the aero,matched with power available in each gear as you swim through the gears.
It's a very complex relationship.
Every time I go to the PATE Swap Meet I ask about this computer and the guys just roll their eyes back in their heads.
I suspect that folks like George Poteet have access to this sort of thing.

[gumby79]

Found a good one.
gear/tier size/transmission calculators by 100 rpm increments

Now to get expressed as a graph with the torque hp curves matched for each gear . Had Gran Turismo 3 in Iraq when you upgraded the car to the full customers customizable transmission you could actually monkey with each gears individual numerical value and was a nice graphic
I guess I could hand plot all this

Results fom link

I ran the #'s out to 4200 as that is the $$$ red line.
With the 3500 governor spring kit 135 @100% transfer is possible with a 31.7(stock size) 3.55 :1 (stock)
155mph @3500 with3.00.

Take the 6% diminstrated losses (possible warn 2500 governor spring contribution.) And that is 126.9 , 145.7 respectively

[Piotrsko]

Don't wanna repost this whole thing, BUT, paste your data into excel and it will do graphs easy peasy

[aerohead]

I'm still thinking that we need an acceleration calculator.
If you watch 'World's Fastest Indian' you'll see Burt Munro dropping a rotary slide rule computer into his travel bag as he readies himself for the trip to Bonneville.
I suspect that he had the HOT ROD calculator.
To be able to predict your trap speed at the mile and two-mile,the equation must handle:
*total mass
*available horsepower along the total rpm range between shifts
*gearing in all gears
*polar moment of inertia for all rotating masses (gears,shafts,bearings,wheels,tires,etc.)
*rolling force coefficient of the tires (no one has ever published the range of RR which cab occur on the salt,for the range of salt conditions which can exist on a given day
*aerodynamic drag index
*local air density at time of run (you can get this from Rick Gold@ at his racing fuel trailer on race day,with updates every hour or so)
There's a lot of differential equations which must be solved simultaneously to calculate what you could expect.(a graduate student in mathematics would be your friend)