PCV catch can install.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by Formula413

You can purchase larger catch cans, and mounting brackets and such to go with them, they are sold for performance applications. Here's some examples on Summit and Jegs...

I took a look at the offerings, but they're not transparent, and look way too good I might try one on the TSX to keep it looking classy. I'll probably leave the Insight alone since it's still under warranty with free oil changes for a while -- I'm sure they would use it as an excuse to void something (kneejerk reaction from the EVO days -- they busted owners for Autocrossing at the time).

I've been running the exact same filter you have on my Firebird for a few years now. I can't tell from your pic if you removed the white filter element inside the cylinder or not. Mine is still in but I have heard that it should be removed, I may do this at some point. I empty mine when it gets filled to the bottom of that filter element, which is about half full, and that happens in about 400 miles. Here's a pic of mine, I mounted it to the cowl in front of the brake booster...

Clean install, by the way I removed the filter element as part of the design instruction -- I forget what it does. But yeah, mine gets fuller, faster, as time goes by. I'll admit, I installed it to see if it was a worthy mod as a "temporary" splice into the existing line. A few years later...

Originally Posted by cfg83

I have a glass jar version that is TBInstalled for my car. It's on the infinite TODO list.

Perfect! What is the design plan?

RH77

[Josh8loop]

Something I've done on my 2002 Jetta TDI(ALH motor):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2w-ejVE14

..

[mwebb]

the runaway issue is not ever going to be an issue for your engine
with 1 0z per 6500miles

boost bled into crankcase is not a good idea ,
(1 bar of boost can pop out the rear crankshaft oil seal - ask me how i know that )
you could use a check valve to allow flow when boost is not present
like a
crankcase vent valve / PCV valve -

and the newer TDi dumps the oil back into the crankcase after the cyclone portion of the crankcase vent valve so no nastiness ends up wasted , it all gets sent to the combustion chamber
to be
combusted ...
so

PCV "catch can"
no engine should ever need a PCV Catch can , if yours does , that is one indication that your engine has bad piston rings or a sloppy seal at the turbo center bearing
or
the piston rings may just be frozen with carbon in the lands because the engine has been operated with
poor quality oil for many moons

(you can use VW 507 oil in that engine)

so
stop using poor quality oil ,
identify the problem (s) and repair it (them) , which will
improve your fuel economy and make the use of a PCV Catch can
UN necessary / irrelevant

having said that
i know many posters on this forum are on the balls of their butt
financially ... and have no disposable funds to be used to repair those problems ...
if that applies - a catch can is still a bad idea

[D.O.G.]

Originally Posted by mwebb

PCV "catch can"
no engine should ever need a PCV Catch can , if yours does , that is one indication that your engine has bad piston rings or a sloppy seal at the turbo center bearing
or
the piston rings may just be frozen with carbon in the lands because the engine has been operated with
poor quality oil for many moons

When I was driving "BoB" as my daily, I fitted a catch can (home made) because of the amount of oil coming through the PCV.
I later fitted a basic water injection system (also home made) to clean carbon from the combustion chamber and rings.
It restored some of the power and fuel economy the engine had lost over the years (over a few weeks), it also stopped the engine dumping so much oil out the PCV.
I'd been draining 15 to 20 CCs from the catch can every couple of weeks. After the rings had freed up (I guess), I only got a few drops out of the catch can.

[mwebb]

Originally Posted by D.O.G.

When I was driving "BoB" as my daily, I fitted a catch can (home made) because of the amount of oil coming through the PCV.
I later fitted a basic water injection system (also home made) to clean carbon from the combustion chamber and rings.
It restored some of the power and fuel economy the engine had lost over the years (over a few weeks), it also stopped the engine dumping so much oil out the PCV.
I'd been draining 15 to 20 CCs from the catch can every couple of weeks. After the rings had freed up (I guess), I only got a few drops out of the catch can.

that is good
you have freed up your piston rings with the water injection , apparently .

so now
reinstall the original PCV plumbing with a new PCV valve and use only engine oils that meet
ACEA A3 B3-A3 B4 specification and
the problem will not return ...

until the piston rings wear out , the correct lubricants can not restore steel that has worn away .

see BITOG Forums , study and learn

[Josh8loop]

Originally Posted by mwebb

the runaway issue is not ever going to be an issue for your engine
with 1 0z per 6500miles

boost bled into crankcase is not a good idea ,
(1 bar of boost can pop out the rear crankshaft oil seal - ask me how i know that )
you could use a check valve to allow flow when boost is not present
like a
crankcase vent valve / PCV valve -

and the newer TDi dumps the oil back into the crankcase after the cyclone portion of the crankcase vent valve so no nastiness ends up wasted , it all gets sent to the combustion chamber
to be
combusted ...
so

PCV "catch can"
no engine should ever need a PCV Catch can , if yours does , that is one indication that your engine has bad piston rings or a sloppy seal at the turbo center bearing
or
the piston rings may just be frozen with carbon in the lands because the engine has been operated with
poor quality oil for many moons

(you can use VW 507 oil in that engine)

so
stop using poor quality oil ,
identify the problem (s) and repair it (them) , which will
improve your fuel economy and make the use of a PCV Catch can
UN necessary / irrelevant

having said that
i know many posters on this forum are on the balls of their butt
financially ... and have no disposable funds to be used to repair those problems ...
if that applies - a catch can is still a bad idea

I'm actually not sending boost pressure directly to the crankcase. I bleed a VERY small metered amount of boost air from the lower intercooler downstream of the crankcase but upstream of the cyclonic separator. This bleed ensures that I have no significant amount of oil accumulation in the intercooler, and helps to aid the effectiveness of the cyclonic separator. I am getting a little more than 1 ounce per 10K miles.

The other benefit of the system is that it provides visual feedback of turbo oil seals and also the CCV oil throughput. The other benefit is that it helps reduce EGR valve clogging a small amount. I wouldn't swear to it, but my gut tells me I may have increased my mileage a small amount with the addition. I'm at 60 MPG in Florida city traffic for the last 4 tanks of 800 miles each tank-Plus it's darn cool!!

[cfg83]

RH77 -

Originally Posted by RH77

...

Perfect! What is the design plan?

RH77

It's just a glass jar with a custom plastic thingy for hanging off the battery clamp. I got it from a fellow at saturnfans.com . I would mod it to have a rubber "donut" around the jar to protect it from risk of breaking from vibration.

I haven't installed it because it would disable my vacuum gauge.

CarloSW2

[mwebb]

Originally Posted by Josh8loop

I'm actually not sending boost pressure directly to the crankcase. I bleed a VERY small metered amount of boost air from the lower intercooler downstream of the crankcase but upstream of the cyclonic separator. This bleed ensures that I have no significant amount of oil accumulation in the intercooler, and helps to aid the effectiveness of the cyclonic separator. I am getting a little more than 1 ounce per 10K miles.

The other benefit of the system is that it provides visual feedback of turbo oil seals and also the CCV oil throughput. The other benefit is that it helps reduce EGR valve clogging a small amount. I wouldn't swear to it, but my gut tells me I may have increased my mileage a small amount with the addition. I'm at 60 MPG in Florida city traffic for the last 4 tanks of 800 miles each tank-Plus it's darn cool!!

your PCV / Cyclone valve is at crankcase pressure , if you add boost to it from the intercooler which does have boost if your turbo is functioning ,
then your crankcase will operate with boost , pressure above baro when the system is boosting

and
you have misplaced the air ducting for the intercooler which renders it useless for it's original purpose
now
your intercooler is a large boost accumulator , with trace amounts of engine oil from the failing center bearing of your turbo

that is not darn cool
because
the
pcv cyclone valve should drain to the oil pan

there is no benefit here only detriment

[Josh8loop]

Originally Posted by mwebb

your PCV / Cyclone valve is at crankcase pressure , if you add boost to it from the intercooler which does have boost if your turbo is functioning ,
then your crankcase will operate with boost , pressure above baro when the system is boosting

and
you have misplaced the air ducting for the intercooler which renders it useless for it's original purpose
now
your intercooler is a large boost accumulator , with trace amounts of engine oil from the failing center bearing of your turbo

that is not darn cool
because
the
pcv cyclone valve should drain to the oil pan

there is no benefit here only detriment

Not sure you caught just how small my bleed line is from the lower intercooler? It's 1/8" diameter, and about 6-8 feet long.

Not sure you caught the fact that my cyclone separator is not a stock component for my car and was added to aid in oil removal from the intake.

The bleed line is essentially a capillary tube. You cannot physically drive much volume through it(since it's so small in diamteter) at such low boost pressures. Let alone the fact that it is carrying small slugs of oil through it occasionally(Enough for 1.1 oz per 10K miles) which further reduces the volume it can move. It also enters the CCV system at the elbow on top of the valve cover in a way that will allow the VERY small amount of air that it bleeds to entrain additional crank case gasses essentially scavenging the crank case to a very small degree.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by mwebb

PCV "catch can"
no engine should ever need a PCV Catch can , if yours does , that is one indication that your engine has bad piston rings or a sloppy seal at the turbo center bearing
or
the piston rings may just be frozen with carbon in the lands because the engine has been operated with
poor quality oil for many moons

I understand your concerns regarding the PCV system, but I have a few follow-up questions, statements, and a respectful difference of opinion in some situations...

In the case of Josh8loop's TDI, it appears that a reasonable collection system was designed to remove a nominal amount of oil from the turbo bearing seal and then from the crankcase. If a pressure guage were to be applied to the capillary tube, I expect a very small reading of negligible, intermittent pressure. I would imagine that losing small amount of oil is typical for a turbo, with the speed, temperature, and pressure of the application? Also, turbochargers in consumer applications tend to fail at the 100K mile mark (on the average) without proper cooldown during the life of the component. Timed idling before shutdown (not advised for FE) or light driving before shutdown, has demonstrated a preservation approach to turbo longevity, as you probably know.

To demonstrate the amount of emissions from this system on a larger scale, take a look at a large, rear-engined tour bus. Since a closed PCV system is not required for large vehicle applications, a vent tube generally exhausts the vent directly into the atmosphere. If one looks underneath while the vehicle is at idle, the downward-pointed tube is often clearly visible, and vents quite a bit of contaminants. If left stationary and idle for a while, a greasy/oily spot can be seen on the pavement where this tube vents.

These vehicles are designed to run 100's of thousands of miles, and typically vent a considerable amount when relatively new. Would diesel engines have more blow-by due to the higher compression and a larger supply of oil? In our small, closed PCV systems, we simply want to condense and collect the discharge before it can potentially degrade downstream components or senselessly be burned and released into our air.

My personal goal (and likelly that of others) is to remove airborne pollutants, contaminants, and whatever blow-by occurs in normal engine operation -- and especially as engines accumulate more hours and inevitably wear out their piston rings. The system has existed for a reason (for decades), and can account for significant air quality issues if not maintained. For those strapped for cash, it can be an inexpensive addition to prevent costly and inefficient operation later.

Further, despite the closed nature of the sytem, I would expect condensation and warm-up evaporation to be a factor on cold starts and/or humid days, increasing the vapor amount.

I applaud Josh's collection of intercooler contaminants, through carefully constructing a relatively non-invasive setup. Whether or not the turbo is significantly leaking, collecting over 5 oz. of comtanimants over 50K miles establishes the "every little bit helps" rule, and thus far, has not been reported to be a detriment.

As for me, I plan to continue my usual maintenance routine, involving the use of high-quality oil / filter changes, Seafoam cleanse directly into the intake, and the catch can. So far, 50K miles later, it sill runs smoothly and efficiently at 160K total miles.

RH77