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Old 05-12-2020, 04:42 PM   #221 (permalink)
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I applied for a mortgage. I hope you're happy!

They gave me 10 options just for 30-year conventional loans, from 3.25% with 3 points to 4.5% with -0.75 points. Navy Federal says "One point is 1% of your mortgage," so 3 points would be $5,400 on a $180,000 mortgage, while -0.75 points would be a $1,350 credit on the same loan.

It seems that points are better if you have the money and plan on holding the mortgage for the long-term.

Navy Federal requires 5% down for their conventional mortgage. They do not require PMI and I earned $36,000 last year, so I am applying for $180,000, but 5% of that is $9,000, so actually $171,000, and $5,130 for points.

As long as I can come up with $14,130 just for the down payment and points.

They are charging me $19.73 for a credit report and asking for my credit card information.

It would be nice if it showed my accounts with them and allowed that option.
Quote:
Your payment could not be processed. We will attempt to collect the credit report fee from your Navy Federal Credit Union checking / savings account, as per your consent to have us pull your credit report.
Bizarre. I double-checked the numbers.

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Last edited by Xist; 05-30-2020 at 03:44 AM.. Reason: "I applied," not "I am applied"
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:25 PM   #222 (permalink)
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How many other places did you shop? Even if you're not shopping other places, I would tell them you are. Mortgage brokers are notorious for squeezing every dollar they can from you. Don't assume anything they tell you is set in stone, and certainly verify the paperwork matches what was discussed.

I'm telling you, they are like a pack of wolves. Mention another offer from somewhere else and all of a sudden you'll get a better offer from them. This is the #1 place to spend your time, because there is no other financial obligation you will make that has consequences as big as this. Coupons for pizza is nothing compared to this.

I'd never pay points simply because you can always refi, and you never know how long you will keep the mortgage.

Congrats on moving forward.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:54 PM   #223 (permalink)
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I wouldn't pay points
4.5% isn't a very good rate without points

My local credit union is offering (Rate % / Points / APR %)

30 Year Fixed Rate Home Loan - Purchase 2.875% -0.125 2.920%
20 Year Fixed Rate Home Loan - Purchase 2.875% -0.250 2.938%
15 Year Fixed Rate Home Loan - Purchase 2.375% 0.375 2.510%
10 Year Fixed Rate Home Loan - Purchase 3.125% 0.250 3.298%

I noticed for awhile now that for some reason 10 year loans aren't competitive.

Like redpoint said, shop around. Mortgages are a commodity product and your mortgage is going to be sold to someone else anyway so "service" doesn't matter.

I've looked into refinancing but have found out my mortgage is too small for lenders to bother with at least right now. We have $90,000 and 10 years left. A couple of banks have straight up said they aren't interested in mortgages under $150,000.

We have been looking at buying a rental house. Rental properties have higher rate than primary residences and our primary mortgage is too small to refinance. It seems the answer is to refinance with cash out and use the cash to buy the rental house.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:27 PM   #224 (permalink)
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Yeah, cash out refi or...

I was asked if I'm living in the property I purchased in Oklahoma. I was, for the week I was working on it, so they gave us (partner) the primary residence rate. He lived there a few months to continue working on it. I don't know why they care anyhow so long as payments keep coming in. The question might as well be "are you willing to pay a bit more?".
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:45 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Do they allow 5% down payments?

Aw nuts:
Quote:
FREE home appraisal
Competitive rates & terms
Low closing costs & fees
Down payment as low as 3%
Down payment may be gifted
Closings in as little as 21 days
Arizona Central Credit Union

Double nuts! For current mortgage loan rates please contact us at (602) 264-6421

In more important news: Who knows who is on the dime and why?
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:24 AM   #226 (permalink)
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My mortgage is ~4.8% and I put down 3%, but I haven't refinanced since rates dropped. I'm waiting to finish some house projects so hopefully I can drop PMI with the refinance.
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:27 AM   #227 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Do they allow 5% down payments?
The advertise "Low Down Payment Options" I'm pretty sure they do FHA loans. Like most places they would rather have you prequalify and give you a custom rate than list a bunch of options on their website.

I noticed you said Navy Federal doesn't charge PMI. That could be a method to get people to accept a higher rate. 1% more doesn't sound like a lot but it make a huge difference over 30 years.

$171K @ 4.5% = $312,088
$171K @ 3.5% = $276,607

PMI doesn't cost $35,000
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Old 05-13-2020, 04:06 AM   #228 (permalink)
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Navy Federal Mortgage Review: Rates Appear Low and They Keep Your Loan
Oh no! They are bad!

This reminds me of one of Kevin's videos criticizing someone better-known than him or videos by random people saying that Kevin is wrong--except despite the title, they don't say anything negative about Navy Federal.

"Appear" is misleading because the article makes clear that Navy Federal has low rates. They do specify that NF has a 1% origination fee.

I do not have any idea if that is high or low.

By the way, keeping your loan should be good. They don't sell it off like other banks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
They gave me 10 options just for 30-year conventional loans, from 3.25% with 3 points to 4.5% with -0.75 points. Navy Federal says "One point is 1% of your mortgage," so 3 points would be $5,400 on a $180,000 mortgage, while -0.75 points would be a $1,350 credit on the same loan.
It was 4.25% with zero points. Their calculator says that works out to $841 a month.

$171K @ 4.25% = $302,838

Fun. Zillow defaults to 3.75%, which would be $52 less a month, and estimates mortgage insurance being $108 a month.

Based on NF's amortization table I estimate it would take 153 months to get out of mortgage insurance if the home value stays flat.

Everybody knows that $108 * 153 = $16,524.
Everybody also knows that $302,838 - $16,524 = $286,314

So, an extra $9,707 over 30 years.

Why do you guys always come up with more homework for me?! Why are you never satisfied?!

Well, I opened the first page of Google results for "find the best mortgage rates." If it doesn't fit on my 43" television it doesn't matter.

Nerdwallet didn't show any quotes at all until I said that I am a Veteran. Now it says that Chase will give me 4.418%.

Remember, Navy Federal said 4.25% without points, 4.5% with -0.75 points.

SmartAsset doesn't show any lenders. I do not know why it wants me to read a long article. Is it about the writer's feelings about mortgages?

TheSimpleDollar doesn't show anything, either, but it seems to have enough reading material to put me to sleep.

No thanks, I will just stare down the abyss.

Money says that Quicken typically gives 4.137% APR. They say that Veterans' United does conventional loans, but it only shows VA rates. It says that Citibank typically gives 3.617% APR.

With 5% down?

Citi does not give out rates without giving your personal information.

Zillow says that NBKC Bank will do 3.5% without lender fees, but actually a $335 credit. Curiously it would have the same payment as Sebonic Financial, also 3.5%, but $787 in lender fees.

Zillow says that NBKC says that payments at 3.5% would be $784. I requested that NBKC spammed me. [they already did] Curiously, Zillow's calculator says that a $171,000 mortgage at 3.5% would have $756 payments.

Of course Zillow also says that taxes are $329 a month, but their calculator on a house listing shows $119 in taxes.

I don't know what to believe anymore!

I was thinking that Interest.com's utility looked familiar.

"Rate data provided by Bankrate."

LendingTree only shows an FHA lender, which is strangely 3%, but 4.056% APR.

ELend estimates the property tax would be $96.90 a month. NavajoCountyAZ.gov says that our neighbor paid $1,125.32 in property tax in 2019, which obviously is $93.78 a month.

Where in the world did Zillow get $329?!

They do not give rates without your personal information.

Out!

Brilliant. HSH.com gave me three lenders based on what I told them, but they just say "Low rates."

Out!

Going back to Google and specifying 5% or low down payments didn't change anything.

I have used Bank of America for a dozen years, but while they say they require 5% down, they will not give me a rate.

I have used USAA for years.

Oh no! They want my information!

"Do you intend to occupy the property for more than 14 days during the coming year?"

That would be telling!
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Old 05-13-2020, 04:22 AM   #229 (permalink)
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Property value increases at about 3% per year, so it should accelerate the loan/value ratio.
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Old 05-13-2020, 03:01 PM   #230 (permalink)
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They periodically go down, too. Many of us have been waiting years for that to happen.

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