$1000 to register an electric vehicle ???

[Fat Charlie]

Pity that we as a society can't look past the next quarterly report or election cycle.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by hat_man

Elimination of corporate taxes will never decrease the price of US made goods. Ever. Corporations will only see it as added bottom line profit and pocket it. It will never be re-invested for workers or passed on to consumers.

You might find an economist somewhere that would back that claim.

Lower corporate taxes has among the most consensus among economists.

Your argument statement is not compelling.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Lower corporate taxes has among the most consensus among economists..

Given most corporations in the US have paid zero income tax for decades what do economists think of the current government subsidized corporate environment?

Should they be paid to provide jobs?

In my area you would have trouble finding a single strip mall that wasn’t built using government guaranteed loans that are commonly defaulted on.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Given most corporations in the US have paid zero income tax for decades what do economists think of the current government subsidized corporate environment?

Should they be paid to provide jobs?

In my area you would have trouble finding a single strip mall that wasn’t built using government guaranteed loans that are commonly defaulted on.

I didn't say corporations should be subsidized, I said they should have low and possibly zero corporate taxes.

It seems you have some vendetta against "corporations", the source of which is unclear to me. Even if you do, punishing them at the expense of the economy is foolish.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...liticians-hate

There might be an argument that we should sabotage the economy to fight global warming, but there's lots of ways to do that, and just about nobody would willingly do it (AOC aside).

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I didn't say corporations should be subsidized, I said they should have low and possibly zero corporate taxes.

It seems you have some vendetta against "corporations", the source of which is unclear to me. Even if you do, punishing them at the expense of the economy is foolish.).

My point is they already do and in some cases are going into negative liability, yet no real benefit is coming from this long term policy

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...tax-last-year/

If it’s a failed policy double down? Money in the pocket doesn’t go anywhere to build anything.

If corporations have paid no income tax for decades why mention lowering their taxes? why is it a discussion point when it’s already been fact forever?
Not paying taxes is current state but more are exiting the workforce anyway what else is left on the table?

And further, why blame the operator?
The economic issues in this country are usually blamed on the poor earning $250,000 a year or less, why protect a corporate interest like its above reproach?
The reality is those earning income are primarily reactive and have no real influence on the economy, they mearly follow trends as mindlessly as bees go to honey.
Their ability to produce useful gainful products on their own is eroding.
The ideal of the self made person is moving to a fantasy.

[hat_man]

Not to go off track but......

How in the world can you call anyone making $250k a year "poor"? That's the equivalent of $125 an HOUR before taxes. And some people are complaining about raising the minimum wage??? The $20-$25/hour factory worker that probably made most of the cars we drive (and mod) is only making 1/3 of that and their unions are under attack from these same "corporate interests" because they want even cheaper labor. That coupled with the fact that the Big 3 are outsourcing jobs overseas and to Mexico while laying off workers doesn't support the idea that the tax cuts they received are creating jobs. It did succeed in raising corporate profits and the ability to buy back their own stock. Good for the corporation, but not for the common man.

Redpoint5 you seem to be a believer in the "horse and oats" theory, but show me any time in recorded history that it has succeeded for the common man. Show me where a corporation has decreased the price of US made goods after increased profits from either sales or tax reduction. That may make for a more compelling argument.

If the Mod's think I have crossed a line with this post please let me know and I will immediately remove it and make any necessary apologies.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

If it’s a failed policy double down? Money in the pocket doesn’t go anywhere to build anything.

If corporations have paid no income tax for decades why mention lowering their taxes? why is it a discussion point when it’s already been fact forever?
Not paying taxes is current state but more are exiting the workforce anyway what else is left on the table?

The economic issues in this country are usually blamed on the poor earning $250,000 a year or less, why protect a corporate interest like its above reproach?
The reality is those earning income are primarily reactive and have no real influence on the economy, they mearly follow trends as mindlessly as bees go to honey.
Their ability to produce useful gainful products on their own is eroding.
The ideal of the self made person is moving to a fantasy.

You'd need to show how it's a failed policy to lower corporate taxes, especially in light of practically no economists agreeing. The world has never been so prosperous. Further, most companies are small and barely get by. They would be sunk if not for low corporate taxes.

It has always been the case that the common person has no real influence over the economy, just like your vote doesn't matter. You're right that the self-made person is a fantasy, as it always was. We're social creatures, and we depend on our institutions to thrive. The most influential institution, the family, has been eroded over the years. How we're doing so well despite the most important institution eroding is a miracle... or perhaps we're in for a rude awaking.

Originally Posted by hat_man

And some people are complaining about raising the minimum wage??? The $20-$25/hour factory worker that probably made most of the cars we drive (and mod) is only making 1/3 of that and their unions are under attack from these same "corporate interests" because they want even cheaper labor. That coupled with the fact that the Big 3 are outsourcing jobs overseas and to Mexico while laying off workers doesn't support the idea that the tax cuts they received are creating jobs. It did succeed in raising corporate profits and the ability to buy back their own stock. Good for the corporation, but not for the common man.

I'm not complaining about raising the minimum wage, I'm saying it's totally corrupt and evil to dictate the negotiated wage between 2 parties at all. The supreme court should throw it out instantly as an assault on basic liberties.

$20 an hour is a lot of money. Way more than the rest of the world. If I were a manufacturer, I wouldn't fight unions at all, I'd simply move operations to a location where people are happy to work and to be compensated at a rate we both agree upon. Moving factory locations doesn't destroy jobs, it merely shifts the geographic location of them.

You don't seem to understand that the more successful a business is, the greater the necessity to hire employees. A mom and pop store can't employ 50,000 people.

As far as the common man, you'd need to provide evidence that they are suffering, because all metrics show that this moment is the greatest time in human history to exist.

Redpoint5 you seem to be a believer in the "horse and oats" theory, but show me any time in recorded history that it has succeeded for the common man. Show me where a corporation has decreased the price of US made goods after increased profits from either sales or tax reduction. That may make for a more compelling argument.

Right now, this moment. That's the point in history where the most prosperity has been experienced by the greatest proportion of the population. Practically nobody would prefer to be living even 100 years ago.

There are legitimate complaints about the current state, but that's only because no system is perfect and can always be improved. Denying the great good of the system is naive though. It's as ridiculous as "Make America Great Again", as if everything was better back when everything was worse.

[Hersbird]

An auto assembly line worker probably makes more like $25-31/hr straight up. Ford pays on average $40,000/yr per active employee on health care benefits, $18.92/hr! The average company is $2/hr the average union job is $4/hr. They get 14 holiday days and 4 weeks paid vacation in addition to paid sick leave. A healthy 401k sharing program too. I'm sure when there is hiring at the plants, they get a line out the door of qualified applicants. That to me is the real sign if somebody is paid well. Are there hiring shortages that can't be easily filled? There is a truck driver shortage; there would be no truck driver shortage if they were paid like auto workers. Teachers seem to complain, but around here there are 20+ qualified applicants for every vacant position offered at the public school. Undocumented seasonal pickers or roofers doing the jobs citizens won't do? It's because they are under paid, and without the undercutting the wages would have to go up just by laws of supply and demand... Or a machine would be built to do the work.

[Xist]

It always amazes me when minimum-wage earners demand ridiculous raises for jobs that would just be automated. I do not eat McDonald's, but the self-serve kiosk means one less person to mess up my order.

Heh. Then again, I know a Certified Occupational Therapy Assistant that insists she should be paid $50,000 a year. I just feel that I should average twenty hours a week. I would have enough money for all of my goals. I just would not have benefits, retirement, etc.

I do not know why I do not have more [reliable] clients or what the office staff can do about it.

[redpoint5]

All I know is if something isn't working out well enough, you need to do something different.

Every once in a while I see a McDonalds employee that I wish I could hire, because they are destined to excel due to their attention to detail. More often, I wonder why the person that can't remember 2 things in a row is getting paid so much.

Me- "I'll have a cheeseburger and a medium fry to go."
Them- "A cheeseburger, anything else?"
Me- "Yeah, the medium fry".
Them- "Anything else?"
Me- "No."
Them- "Is that for here or to go?"
*facepalm*

Someone operating at that level should make $6/hr. Fortunately McDonald's is beginning to replace those overpaid people. After all, I'm at least as capable of mashing the picture of the thing I want as anyone else.