12 cent federal gas tax increase coming?

[XYZ]

Re: chamber pots:

Sure, that was just a nice graphic example that everyone should be able to understand. The same mental attitudes lead large numbers of people to, just for instance, insist on getting their electricity from fossil fuels, because the adverse consequences don't show up right then and there, and affect them directly.

Why should you care about what affects them directly? What makes you concerned with the "mental attitudes (of) large numbers of people"?

Would you be opposed to their getting their energy from nuclear energy or a clean version of coal generated power plants?

Of course there is, but my point is that the effects on me are the same, regardless of which of the three motivated the action. As for instance, my dickhead neighbor who, every day at the crack of dawn, idles his oversized diesel truck for 15 minutes or so. Do I (and the rest of the neighbors) care whether he does this out of stupidity, ignorance, or willful disregard for his neighbors? We still have to listen to and smell the thing.

So he engages in behaviour that you find offensive. Apparently there is no law against it. Would you like to make a law against it?

Have you considered speaking to him about it? Have you considered closing your windows?

So you care about what affects others, and you readily call them "dickheads". And you also say you care about what affects you "directly".

I have a neighbor who may be similarly ignorant or wasteful. His vehicle is a Honda that he will run at idle in his driveway for at least 15 minutes before driving it at all. It's a waste of fuel. Does it annoy me? No, it doesn't.

The ones I'm thinking of as ignoring the "let live" are the self-proclaimed *libertarian"* types who, for example, think everyone else should be happy to breathe their second-hand tobacco smoke. They're happy to 'live', but come up way short in the 'let live' department.

Are you in their homes? Where does this offensive behaviour occur? I don't know of any actual Libertarians who smoke tobacco, unless they are smoking pot. Unless they are in Colorado, that's usually not done in a public space.

In quotes because I don't think they have the slightest understanding of what libertarianism is, other than an excuse for doing whatever they please, regardless of how it affects others.

There is a difference between being a Libertarian and being a libertine. I suspect that you already knew that, even if you didn't qualify it. But I also wonder whether you are a Libertarian or not. Your examples and arguments suggest that you are not.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by Vman455

Because it's come up a few times already: sChadenfreude! Yes, it's spelled with a "c"!

Back to what you were doing.

My apologies for the repeated misspelling. I wasn't raised in Germany (thank
God).

But you don't need to be German to understand what it is, and the concept still applies.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by Grant-53

The fundamental question is whether any tax can be collected and spent efficiently for the maximum benefit of the community.

NO. The fundamental question and the entire theme of this thread is whether a tax should be collected and spent for a specific, dedicated purpose!

There are a number of tasks best suited to government functions. Among those are common defense, punishment of crimes that directly cause harm to others, reliable weights and measures including currency, and possibly some public utility projects. Addressing poverty is a function of our religious beliefs and practice. We are tempted by fear of loss to "make the other guy pay" so we can get what we want. This happens in business and in government. The question is can an increase in fuel taxes improve our collective well-being? Given the current state of affairs my answer is: not much. The humanist/socialist operating model is self defeating which is why I favor the compassionate conservative model. We as ecomodders value improved efficiency and personal initiative. I have lived most of my life below the so called poverty line. If earned income credits and Medicaid has helped me deal with times of poor health, I am grateful and volunteer my time to help others when I can. I vote and my elected officials hear from me when I can add value to the public debate. We raise our children with the skills to earn their way and help others. Better to pray on your knees than to prey on your neighbors.

I have no quarrel with the rest of what you said.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by XYZ

My apologies for the repeated misspelling. I wasn't raised in Germany (thank
God).

But you don't need to be German to understand what it is, and the concept still applies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCQGQ5qBQTA

"Happiness at the misfortune of others--that is German!"

[gone-ot]

...to which the reclama has been: the gobberment takes money under ONE guise and SPENDS it for something ELSE, which is NOT collecting & spending efficiently for the ORIGINAL INTENDED and DECLARED purpose!

[Varn]

I saw a post about chamber pots. We have an official human waste disposal system on our property. It is called "over the hill". Minimal cost. consists of a pipe. that goes from the toilet out toward the ditch behind the house . As long as the effluent can travel on your property 75 or is it 100 feet it is called good.

Our system low cost and sanitary, 75 feet away. Doesn't need any taxes taken from me.

Along the same line we have about a a 100-200,000 trees on our property. We pick the less healthy and convert them to firewood for 2 years out. Heat is basically what it costs to fire the chain saw. Our bar oil is used motor oil.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by XYZ

Re: chamber pots:

Why should you care about what affects them directly? What makes you concerned with the "mental attitudes (of) large numbers of people"?

Obviously, because those things also affect me.

Would you be opposed to their getting their energy from nuclear energy or a clean version of coal generated power plants?

Nuclear would be great. "Clean coal" belongs in the Unicorn Corral.

So he engages in behaviour that you find offensive. Apparently there is no law against it. Would you like to make a law against it?

No, I'd like to shoot the SOB. Unfortunately, there are laws against that.

Have you considered speaking to him about it? Have you considered closing your windows?

I have spoken to him. His response was physical threats which escalated to the point where I decided to call the cops. In retrospect, I probably should have just taken him out then, but I thought it would look better having it on record for the next time.

As for closing my windows, 1) It's a diesel truck. Windows don't block the noise. 2) Why should I be denied the freedom of having cool, fresh air in my house?

I have a neighbor who may be similarly ignorant or wasteful. His vehicle is a Honda that he will run at idle in his driveway for at least 15 minutes before driving it at all. It's a waste of fuel. Does it annoy me? No, it doesn't.

Wouldn't annoy me either, since if he had a nice, quiet, non-stinking Honda, I wouldn't be able to hear or smell it. (I know this because other neighbors do have Hondas & Toyotas.) That's exactly my point: It's perfectly possible to conduct your affairs in a way that at least minimizes your effects on others, which is why many of us are happy to drive cars with working mufflers and emission controls. But there are some people who just seem to get off on doing things that make other people's lives a bit more miserable, even when doing so costs them in money and/or convenience.

Where does this offensive behaviour occur? I don't know of any actual Libertarians who smoke tobacco, unless they are smoking pot.

LP meetings & conventions, back when I used to be politically active.

[jcp123]

Great. More taxes as they continue to build toll roads at an amazing pace. Maybe it's because the gas tax money collected usually gets raided before it is spent on roads to begin with.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by jcp123

Great. More taxes as they continue to build toll roads at an amazing pace. Maybe it's because the gas tax money collected usually gets raided before it is spent on roads to begin with.

Yes, that is what happens - it gets raided. Once a tax is approved, tax money can then be diverted in many different ways.

Once the taxpayers give the government the power to tax, and control over the money generated from the tax, it is no longer in their hands of the public. They have relinquished control over both.

[XYZ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZ
Re: chamber pots:

Why should you care about what affects them directly? What makes you concerned with the "mental attitudes (of) large numbers of people"?

Obviously, because those things also affect me.

Why should you care about what other people think? The mental attitudes of anyone, including hordes of people is NOT what affects you. What they SAY about you might affect you. How they VOTE might affect you. What they DO will affect you.

What they think does not affect you. People think all sorts of crazy things. You may think that what others think is detrimental to you. It's not. Until thought is put into action it is merely fantasy.

Quote:
Would you be opposed to their getting their energy from nuclear energy or a clean version of coal generated power plants?

Nuclear would be great. "Clean coal" belongs in the Unicorn Corral.

The technology exists to make clean use of coal. The current government will not permit it.

Quote:
So he engages in behaviour that you find offensive. Apparently there is no law against it. Would you like to make a law against it?

No, I'd like to shoot the SOB. Unfortunately, there are laws against that.

You are on record as saying that. Be careful about what you say. The thought police may come to your door to say that your negative fantasies are endangering others.

Quote:
Have you considered speaking to him about it? Have you considered closing your windows?

I have spoken to him. His response was physical threats which escalated to the point where I decided to call the cops. In retrospect, I probably should have just taken him out then, but I thought it would look better having it on record for the next time.

What did the cops say when you called them? Tell us more.

As for closing my windows, 1) It's a diesel truck. Windows don't block the noise. 2) Why should I be denied the freedom of having cool, fresh air in my house?

You don't have a right or "the freedom" of always having "cool, fresh air". You don't have the right to prohibit all noise you might find offensive or unacceptable to you, except during hours when it is considered unacceptable according to standards set by laws in your locale.

Quote:
I have a neighbor who may be similarly ignorant or wasteful. His vehicle is a Honda that he will run at idle in his driveway for at least 15 minutes before driving it at all. It's a waste of fuel. Does it annoy me? No, it doesn't.

Wouldn't annoy me either, since if he had a nice, quiet, non-stinking Honda, I wouldn't be able to hear or smell it. (I know this because other neighbors do have Hondas & Toyotas.) That's exactly my point: It's perfectly possible to conduct your affairs in a way that at least minimizes your effects on others, which is why many of us are happy to drive cars with working mufflers and emission controls. But there are some people who just seem to get off on doing things that make other people's lives a bit more miserable, even when doing so costs them in money and/or convenience.

Has it occurred to you that what he is doing may not be directed towards you with the express purpose of annoying you?

By now, after you called the cops, he knows how to 'push your buttons', and so he will. Only you can change your response to it.

LP meetings & conventions, back when I used to be politically active.

Political activism won't cure the problems you have described here. This is a problem between neighbors, and your ability to work things out.

Politics is the disease. Politics is not a cure.