1997 Civic CX to HX engine/VX trans swap! 63 MPG @ 62 MPH

[Jakins]

What Ecu did you use?


Yah and who needs radios? Lol way to heavy

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by turbovr41991

I guess it has been a while since I updated. I got sick of the picky lean burn and went to a tuned ECU. Mid 50's is effortless in 5th gear. It is sweet. Toss in some hypermiling and I can easily get mid 60's to a tank. Best 10 mile run was 85+ where my previous best was 75 mpg. Best full trip to work was 75 mpg where my previous best was still in the 67. This was far from a perfect run, so I am thinking there is alot more potential too.

Also, got a "tunerview 2" to replace the OBD2 scan gauge. I displays 8 things instead of just 4. Preaty sweet along side an MPGuino. It even matches! (now I just need a bigger MPGuino display....)

Nice concept. And the color match on the gauges is way cool. Maybe your dash was configured slightly differently than mine, but couldn't you have used the blank spot above the cup holders for these gauges? That would allow you to keep the radio, or maybe move the radio down to the blank so you can have better view of the gauges and still have the radio. But maybe your dash is different. I know there were a few slightly different designs.

But I love having the radio, though I wanted less weight and power consumption, so here is what I did. My ultra gauge sits on the steering column in front of the OEM gauge cluster. I took my 6 CD changer out of the trunk, with its metal cage, totaling 7 lbs. Created an "aux" input for my old iPod shuffle that goes through the old cig lighter spot. And I don't use the back speakers, which I think saves power. I moved the antenna out of the aero stream outside and set it up securely across the dash. Not as good reception as outside, but better than nothing.

[turbovr41991]

Originally Posted by Jakins

What Ecu did you use? Yah and who needs radios? Lol way to heavy

I believe the ECU is a P06 or P28. I picked it up from Northwest Auto Solutions in Columbus. You might remember their thread about trying to start up an ecomodding shop. Pretty neat stuff!

Oh and I still have a stereo. I just relocated it to the stock CD player area which is righ above the cupholder. I will take better pictures of it later.

Originally Posted by California98Civic

Nice concept. And the color match on the gauges is way cool. Maybe your dash was configured slightly differently than mine

Thanks. I was really happy to see it matched perfectly. Now I just need a bigger LCD for the MPGuino! I think our dashes are the same. I am pretty sure all 96-98 had the same controls. 99-00 were the ones that were different.

Originally Posted by California98Civic

couldn't you have used the blank spot above the cup holders for these gauges?

I did not like having the gauges that low. I originally had my scan gauge down there and really disliked it. I did not think it was safe at all looking down that far so often. I felt the stereo was a better fit down there.

Originally Posted by California98Civic

I moved the antenna out of the aero stream outside and set it up securely across the dash. Not as good reception as outside, but better than nothing.

I picked up an 3 foot interior antenna which have mounted on the top of my windshield. But as you said, quality is not as good, but better than nothing. I find myself using the stereo’s flash drive playing ability more than anything. Scandisk makes a really shallow USD flash drive that sticks out maybe 2-3mm. Barely enough to grab onto to remove it.

[brucepick]

turbovr41991,

I don't have a tuner background and I'm getting a bit lost here. Can you sort out for me (us?) how this went together, both physically and software?

I know you're using a modified OBD-1 ECU. And I think there's a jumper cable to connect it to the car's existing harness connector?

Is Neptune programmed into the OBD-1 ECU? Or installed into some other hardware?

How does the Tunerview connect to the system? Does it need other tools or software to set it up or run?

If my state inspection requires my '97 car to have working OBDII, will I need to physically remove the OBD-1 ECU or does the OBD-1 install in its own spot so I only need to swap some connectors temporarily?

Sorry for all the questions. Tuning noob.

[Cobb]

Not bad, you almost got me beat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR-TSyPQIok

[figit090]

woahhh! great work! I was wondering a few things, I've watched lots of builds but never felt like asking questions, this is the first practical looking setup I've seen, compared to some.

May I ask;
What makes this so efficient? An engine made for a larger car able to move the smaller car much easier perhaps, or is this a particularly efficient engine? I don't know enough about civic models to begin to understand the HX/DX mess of acronyms...

How dangerous is the "lean burn" for the engine? while reading performance modification threads for supras and such (I drive one) I have often seen that a fuel mix that is too lean will burn up the engine. Perhaps that's more dangerous with higher compression and turbos...but I would assume it risky here too.

Why don't car manufacturers do this sort of thing more? If anyone could swap in this engine and buy some engine management tools...you'd think that car manufacturers would jump on the bandwagon. I'm sure that some amenities may be sacrificed since I skipped a lot of the thread, but surely it's driveable... is it very tricky to get it to run right?

[turbovr41991]

Originally Posted by Cobb

Not bad, you almost got me beat.

I need some more aero mods to really compete with your numbers! Noce work!!!

[turbovr41991]

Originally Posted by brucepick

I know you're using a modified OBD-1 ECU. And I think there's a jumper cable to connect it to the car's existing harness connector?

Is Neptune programmed into the OBD-1 ECU? Or installed into some other hardware?

How does the Tunerview connect to the system? Does it need other tools or software to set it up or run?

If my state inspection requires my '97 car to have working OBDII, will I need to physically remove the OBD-1 ECU or does the OBD-1 install in its own spot so I only need to swap some connectors temporarily?

Bruce,

I am using an OBD1 ecu. To do this I just have an OBD2a to OBD1 jumper harness. It literally plugs into the stock harness where the ECU is, and the other side plugs into the OBD1 ECU. No wiring needed, its plug and play.

I believe Neptune is the program they use to ship the ecu. The tune is stored in the ship. The burn a new chip, install in the ECU and it works flawlessly.

The tuner view has a 4 wire connector that plugs in directly into the inside of the ECU to data connector. I am pretty sure this was added to the stock ECU. The other end of the cable plugs right into the tuner view. So not tapping into wires or anything like the mpguino. It comes with downloadable software and has a USB cable to set or create things to monitor. All the things I have displayed are selectable fields.

As for inspection, when we had inspection here, it was solely based on exhaust output. If you need the OBD2 port to work, be sure to keep your old ECU and just install it for the inspection. Only one bolt holds the ECU in place, so swapping it is extremely simple.

Originally Posted by figit090

May I ask;
What makes this so efficient? An engine made for a larger car able to move the smaller car much easier perhaps, or is this a particularly efficient engine? I don't know enough about civic models to begin to understand the HX/DX mess of acronyms...

How dangerous is the "lean burn" for the engine? while reading performance modification threads for supras and such (I drive one) I have often seen that a fuel mix that is too lean will burn up the engine. Perhaps that's more dangerous with higher compression and turbos...but I would assume it risky here too.

Why don't car manufacturers do this sort of thing more? If anyone could swap in this engine and buy some engine management tools...you'd think that car manufacturers would jump on the bandwagon. I'm sure that some amenities may be sacrificed since I skipped a lot of the thread, but surely it's drivable... is it very tricky to get it to run right?

Figit, thanks for the kind words. I love the choice of the MK3 supra! I currently am using the transmission of an MK3 supra(R154) in my IS300. It is a very solid unit!

For the efficiency questions, the lean burn technology of this year car was specific to the HX. The DX was just a normal engine. A few things that give me an edge is the CX is lighter and lacks power steering. Another thing is the lower rpms I am using on the highway thanks to the VX transmission I am running.

Running lean is normally dangerous to mot engines, but the Honda Vtec-e were designed in such a way to support it. I believe they have enhanced cooling and the air spirals in a unique fashion to allow the lean burn without causing engine failure.

Most people believe the government is to blame for limiting this technology. For example, they would not allow the full lean burn models in California. They claim the Nox is too high for the economy car class or the engine size. Meanwhile a hummer that has 4x the nox levels is perfectly legal to drive and California while getting a measly 8 mpg… They claim they want more efficient cars, but not enough to hurt the sale of gas. I am sure you can read all the conspiracy theories out there and make your own decisions on it.

As for the drivability, the tuned ecu really improved things and made it easier. Nothing tricky to getting it to run right, just got a chipped ECU tuned for the car from Northwest auto solutions, and hooked it up in the car.

[MakitaDiesel]

I have a similar setup ('97 DX Hatch w/ '98 HX engine/trans) & I am currently on the lookout for a CX/VX trans to boost the first full tank of 45 mpg give or take. I have to ask though, how much was the tuned ECU from Northwest? If it's not cost prohibitive I may try it out to alleviate the fickle lean burn characteristics. Thanks,

Mak

[turbovr41991]

Originally Posted by MakitaDiesel

I have a similar setup ('97 DX Hatch w/ '98 HX engine/trans) & I am currently on the lookout for a CX/VX trans to boost the first full tank of 45 mpg give or take. I have to ask though, how much was the tuned ECU from Northwest? If it's not cost prohibitive I may try it out to alleviate the fickle lean burn characteristics. Thanks,

Mak

Very cool! Glad to see anyother D16Y5 swap out there.

Last time I checked northwest was trying to get $400 ish for their chipped ECU, tune, and jumper harness. You also would not need to run these expensive 5 wire O2 sensors, EGR, and several other things that are alot of $$$. So while it might cost a little up front, at least you don't have to buy $200 O2 sensors anymore and make it a much more predictable drive.