2000 Echo random stalling

[puddleglum]

I've had this car about 1 1/2 years now but it developed a random bog/stall a couple of weeks ago. Friday before last, three time in the first mile or two of driving to work it bogged like it was running out of gas. I stepped on the clutch and it picked up again and ran okay for a bit. It was fine in the afternoon and most of the day Sunday. Sunday night it did the same thing but sputtered a bit before it picked up. Ran fine a mile or so to the store and a mile home. Just before getting home, it stalled completely. Cranked fine but wouldn't fire. threw a bottle of gas line antifreeze in the tank. Tried again about ten minutes later and it started and ran fine. tank was low so thought it could have been ice. Both days temp was below -15*F with -40* windchills, but car had been plugged in or running some. Engine was cool but not cold. Gassed it up on Monday. It was fine all week then stalled again yesterday. Temp was only 3*F and engine plugged in.

It did restart after 15-30 seconds of cranking but ran rough for a few seconds like it was starving for fuel or missing. Ran fine the rest of the day and today. I should say that I have an injector kill switch wired into the injector power wire. It's worked flawlessly for almost a year now. I did change the relay for that circuit yesterday after the stall but I don't think that would cause it, at least not directly. Every failure has been after using the kill switch but it always restarts then bogs or stalls a few seconds later. There is no CEL or stored codes and short term fuel trim is normal when it's running. I changed plugs, pcv, MAF and O2 sensors last year because of a P0171 code and the engine hasn't been exposed to any water.

It's really hard to troubleshoot being so intermittent, but now I don't trust it. Any thoughts on a possible cause or a test that might show something even without a failure? I was wondering if the fuel pump might be starting to fail. Anyone know if fuel pumps have caused much trouble on these cars?

[Daox]

Yeah, intermittent problems are a pain.

If its a fueling issue, you can likely test it. Spin the engine up to higher RPMs and keep the load high. If it can't keep up, you'll have repeatable issues.

Does it do this when the engine is warm or cold or both?

[puddleglum]

It's only ever failed within the first mile or so of driving. Weather has been cold but engine has just been cool. I don't accelerate hard until Engine is warmed up but I was accelerating except the last time. Then I was just starting to pull away from a light. Hasn't done it again since Monday, strange.

[ksa8907]

Does the car use an egr? I have had experience where the egr would not close fast enough when rolling off the throttle and would stall the car, not the same one you have though. Maybe some debris on the maf?

I would say check the intake air temp sensor and the coolant temp sensor.

[Stubby79]

Originally Posted by puddleglum

Hasn't done it again since Monday, strange.

Maybe it was your relay?

[puddleglum]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

Does the car use an egr? I have had experience where the egr would not close fast enough when rolling off the throttle and would stall the car, not the same one you have though. Maybe some debris on the maf?

I would say check the intake air temp sensor and the coolant temp sensor.

the Echo doesn't use an egr valve. Why were you thinking temp sensors?

[California98Civic]

Stubby79 called it. You replaced something and the symptom went away. Wait and see if it comes back before changing anything. Do you have the factory service manual? On the older cars these can often be found free in PDF online. I have a bunch of FSMs for my 98 Civic and other civics. The trouble-shooting sections, I guess intended for dealership mechanics encountering the car new, aree often great and authoritative.

One nagging question: wouldn't the resistor fail throw a CEL?

[puddleglum]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

Do you have the factory service manual?

One nagging question: wouldn't the resistor fail throw a CEL?

I do have an online version of the service manual, it's been helpful since the Haynes manual for the Echo is out of print.

If by resistor you meant the relay, no it wouldn't. It's a normally closed relay mounted in the power supply wire to the injectors. The computer doesn't monitor that wire from what I can tell. That's why I chose that location. If it is the cause, the only way I can see it could cause the problem would be that the contacts didn't close properly causing too much voltage drop to run properly, but enough to allow it to start. That's a bit of a long shot, but it's running just fine now so until it fails again, there's not much more I can do other than prepare for further testing.

[MetroMPG]

Any update? Did the problem stay away?

[jcp123]

I'm curious too. I had some problems on my Echo but nothing quite like you describe.

Man I need to get on with finding an FSM for my Civic. Had one online for the Echo and it was great.