2000 Insight 5 speed repair & build thread

[Daox]

Although majorly improved, my stumble isn't totally gone. I am still getting it at high loads in lean burn mode. I am wondering if it is because the new valve simply can't flow as much EGR as the original Insight EGR valve? The EGR valve from the accord just isn't physically as large as the Insight valve. I'm thinking of fixing the original valve and putting it back on to see if this fixes things. Thoughts?





I've also had a bit more trouble keeping the engine in lean burn mode lately. I'm not sure if its just my learning curve, or colder weather, or what. But, it seems kind of flakey lately. I'll be cruising in lean burn ~100 mpg and it'll jump up or down ~20 mpg without any variance in pedal position or speed. It will also just drop out of lean burn randomly at times as well. Other times it seems really hard to even get it into lean burn mode. Any tips would be very much appreciated.

[cowmeat]

I doubt that's the issue, although I don't know which Accord EGR valve you bought.

I bought the cheaper one for the V6 Accord for Ron Burgundy and it worked perfectly, and I'm pretty sure the opening looked just like that one.

[Ecky]

It's normal for the car to drop out of lean burn every few minutes to purge the cats, especially if you're at higher load. If it's a purge cycle, it'll go back into lean burn in ~30 seconds automatically.

[samwichse]

Mine also drops out of lean burn randomly (before the 1 minute purge) sometimes. Usually it's a daily thing... one day it'll be solid in lean burn. Next day? Kicking out all the time.

I've tracked it down to a bad connection somewhere in the engine wire harness... my ECT keeps going to 0 for a split second (no code trigger), which apparently triggers the LB kickout. Very occasionally I also get a malfunctioning MAP sensor code (has to be cleared manually), so I pretty much know which branch of the harness, but actually finding the loose/bad connection is a bear.

Have you ever noticed anything sporadic about the ECT/IAT numbers?

[Daox]

I'll have to watch them. Thanks for the clue though.

My lean burn is rarely engaged for more than a minute straight. There just aren't that many opportunities to lean burn for that long on my commute.

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by Daox

So, hopefully you guys can help me make sense of how the Insight operates a bit better. I went to a lunch meeting today and the trip is about 2/3rd 55 mph highway travel, rolling hills, bread and butter Insight wonderland. I was able to maintain 75-100 mpg nearly the entire 2/3rds of the way there. The other 1/3rd is 35-45 mph country roads with stop signs all over the place. Great when up to cruising speed, but the dumb signs you gotta stop for every time. This gave me a lot of tries at tweaking my regen braking technique. However, regen doesn't seem to be consistent. Every once in a while it just will not regen. My technique is pretty consistent though. When approaching the sign I shift to neutral and when I get closer to the sign I shift back into gear (usually 3rd) to get regen. Most of the time when I let the clutch out I get the 4 bars of regen right away, and then more once I lightly touch the brakes. However, sometimes I get no regen when I let the clutch out. Sometimes after that I get regen when I brake, and sometimes I don't get regen when I brake. Its confusing.

Also, since I was doing a good amount of regen, for a short time, my battery SOC meter went to 100% full from about half. Continuing driving, it later dropped down to about half full which is where it seems to stay. Is this normal?

I realize a clutch switch and other mods will help me control the IMA system, but I would like to understand better how it operates to begin with in stock form.

Still absolutely loving this car even with its not fully smooth lean burn (yet)!

I've attributed that sometimes lots/sometimes little regen paradigm to heat in the batteries. The BMS is keeping tabs on the heat in the cells and if it gets too high, it won't let me have much regen or assist. Then after another few minutes of driving, full capability returns. I think subsequent generations of IMA packs did away with the monitoring system and just extrapolated what the temperature probably was with a usage algorithm. I'm not sure on that, but considering it would do away with a bit of hardware, which is expensive, I can believe it.

As to you losing half your charge, I assume you're talking about half of it disappearing without having called on any assist, right? Because if you are, I got nothing.

Ecky said sometimes the regen kicks out over a bump. I've noticed that too, especially on a prominent bump close to my house that interrupts what would otherwise by a nice, long regen glide right before parking for the night. I think any jostle strong enough to light up the ABS system even instantaneously kicks regen out completely, and if you want it back, you have to let off the brakes completely. Reapplying brings regen back. If you're not already in regen while braking, the ABS' attention to what you're doing with your brakes is over so quickly you may not realize it was ever involved.

[NoD~]

Originally Posted by Ecky

To get regen when it does that, blip the throttle. Sometimes regen will cut out if you go over a bump too (or at least mine does) and blipping the throttle brings it back.

Finally got this to happen, so I did what you said, and sure enough, worked! Woot!

[LittleBlackDuck]

Originally Posted by Daox

Although majorly improved, my stumble isn't totally gone. I am still getting it at high loads in lean burn mode. I am wondering if it is because the new valve simply can't flow as much EGR as the original Insight EGR valve? The EGR valve from the accord just isn't physically as large as the Insight valve. I'm thinking of fixing the original valve and putting it back on to see if this fixes things. Thoughts?





I've also had a bit more trouble keeping the engine in lean burn mode lately. I'm not sure if its just my learning curve, or colder weather, or what. But, it seems kind of flakey lately. I'll be cruising in lean burn ~100 mpg and it'll jump up or down ~20 mpg without any variance in pedal position or speed. It will also just drop out of lean burn randomly at times as well. Other times it seems really hard to even get it into lean burn mode. Any tips would be very much appreciated.

I would use the proper part. Toyota hybrids have huge EGR flow rates to drop pumping losses, and the insight is probably similar in lean burn.

Simon

PS the Toyotas use the MAP sensor to adjust the EGR flow by measuring the change in manifold pressure when the EGR opens.

[Daox]

As you may or may not know, I've been working on an automatically actuated grill block for the Insight. I'm getting to the point where I need to start evaluating the electronic side of the mod. My current stumbling block is... where is the ECU located on this car? I need to tap into the coolant temp sensor.

[samwichse]

ECU is under the passenger footwell. Pull up the corner of the carpet starting near the passenger door hinge and you'll see a black metal plate at a 45 degree angle, it's under there. Probably easier to tap the ECT in the engine compartment, honestly.

If you have an OBDIIC&C, it puts whatever is on the screen (the 8 display slots) out from the headphone looking jack in serial format, so you can take coolant temp, intake temp, vehicle speed, engine load, pretty much whatever as serial input on your arduino.

Sam