2002 Honda Civic LX auto - repair & modding

[California98Civic]

Just sent the 2001-2005 FSM.

[ecomodded]

Originally Posted by sarguy01

Not true. I put new bushings on my control arms and my alignment is a bit off.

Well something is buggered up because it is not part of the alignment adjustments unless they are adjustable, stock ones are not.
I have done this work to vehicles both with adjustable control arms which you adjust the length of each one and the easy as pie non adjustable stock ones that you just swap.


So when you replace the control arm the ONLY possible change would be the position left side to right side of the axle/axles, so its centered under the car.
that's it.

[sarguy01]

Originally Posted by ecomodded

Well something is buggered up because it is not part of the alignment adjustments unless they are adjustable, stock ones are not.
I have done this work to vehicles both with adjustable control arms which you adjust the length of each one and the easy as pie non adjustable stock ones that you just swap.


So when you replace the control arm the ONLY possible change would be the position left side to right side of the axle/axles, so its centered under the car.
that's it.

The car was aligned using 92,000 mile old, worn rubber bushings. Throw in new, tight bushings and the control arm position is a little off, which will throw the alignment a little off.

[ecomodded]

I agree with you , I should have agreed with you previously as there are no hard and fast rules to front ends and individual cars. ,Worn parts do get happy in their sloppy positions and often you need to replace all worn parts at once. You can't just do 1 ball joint and think all is well, chances are both upper and lower ball joints are worn on both sides, and the tie rod ends are sloppy. Everything has its a lifespan , rubber and grease fittings dry out and it wears.

[sarguy01]

Originally Posted by ecomodded

I agree with you , I should have agreed with you previously as there are no hard and fast rules to front ends and individual cars. ,Worn parts do get happy in their sloppy positions and often you need to replace all worn parts at once. You can't just do 1 ball joint and think all is well, chances are both upper and lower ball joints are worn on both sides, and the tie rod ends are sloppy. Everything has its a lifespan , rubber and grease fittings dry out and it wears.

No worries. I think the biggest issue is that the bushings are new and put the control arm in a slightly different position. Now, since they are a bit off, the toe in/out was probably changed slightly.

[Daox]

As I wind down on fixing the Sunfire, I'm starting work on the Civic. So, last night I put it in the garage to start the head replacement, and check out the suspension. I removed the front driver's side wheel to check out that control arm bushing. This is what I found:



So, it definitely needs replacing. There is a groove worn in the metal from the control arm digging into the control arm mount, so its been that way for some time. I agree with ecomodded that it doesn't look like its adjustable. I should be able to just throw in a new bushing and be good. But, I'll probably go have a 'free alignment check' done somewhere to make sure.

What is the best replacement/fix for this? I see energy suspension has some polyurethane bushings. They're substantially more expensive than the OEM style. But, if they last they might be worth it?

I also started taking things apart to do the head. I mostly just got the intake plumbing removed last night. I'm still amazed by the lack of rust... it makes working on the car SO easy.

[California98Civic]

I need to replace some of these too. Procrastinating it because there are so many other projects. I'm thinking of sticking to OEM. I read that the poly bushings are easier to install but squeek a lot and are stiffer and so transfer more road shocks to the suspension and frame, making a rougher, louder ride. I can't imagine an eco benefit from all that, so I'll go OEM when I do it.

[darcane]

Originally Posted by Daox

As I wind down on fixing the Sunfire, I'm starting work on the Civic. So, last night I put it in the garage to start the head replacement, and check out the suspension. I removed the front driver's side wheel to check out that control arm bushing. This is what I found:



So, it definitely needs replacing. There is a groove worn in the metal from the control arm digging into the control arm mount, so its been that way for some time. I agree with ecomodded that it doesn't look like its adjustable. I should be able to just throw in a new bushing and be good. But, I'll probably go have a 'free alignment check' done somewhere to make sure.

What is the best replacement/fix for this? I see energy suspension has some polyurethane bushings. They're substantially more expensive than the OEM style. But, if they last they might be worth it?

Those are the compliance bushings, and it is very common for them to tear like that. I'd have to double check the FSM, but I think the recommended fix is actually to replace the control arms. To replace just the bushing, it needs to be pressed out and it's not easy since the metal sleeve is fairly thin and can be fused by rust.

I didn't have a press readily available, so I cut them out with a hacksaw. Labor intensive, but it did the job. I went with the polyurethane bushings (specifically Prothane 8-215). I prefer a more firm suspension, they were cheaper ($40) than what I was finding from Honda, and most importantly for me... you don't need a press to install them.

Originally Posted by Daox

I also started taking things apart to do the head. I mostly just got the intake plumbing removed last night. I'm still amazed by the lack of rust... it makes working on the car SO easy.

I am so glad I don't live in rust-prone areas. ALL cars around here are like that.

You will likely find 2-3 engine mounts torn. The front and rear handle the reaction from the engine torque and tend to tear, and the fluid filled mount on the driver's side is not very robust. I went with polyurethane inserts on the front and rear mounts and it adds a significant amount of NVH. It's enough to bother me and I typically have no problem with solid mounted V8s. Go with stock engine mounts if you have to replace.

Are you eliminating power steering while you are in there?

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by darcane

... I think the recommended fix is actually to replace the control arms. To replace just the bushing, it needs to be pressed out and it's not easy since the metal sleeve is fairly thin and can be fused by rust.

I didn't have a press readily available, so I cut them out with a hacksaw. Labor intensive, but it did the job. I went with the polyurethane bushings (specifically Prothane 8-215). I prefer a more firm suspension, they were cheaper ($40) than what I was finding from Honda, and most importantly for me... you don't need a press to install them.

That's interesting. If the poly bushing alone was cheaper than a full control arm replacement with rubber bushings, I'd possibly rethink them. Seems slightly more sensible to replace only the failing part (the bushing) rather than the fail and a perfectly serviceable part (the control arm). How much of a cornering difference does the poly bushing make?

[Daox]

Originally Posted by darcane

Those are the compliance bushings, and it is very common for them to tear like that. I'd have to double check the FSM, but I think the recommended fix is actually to replace the control arms. To replace just the bushing, it needs to be pressed out and it's not easy since the metal sleeve is fairly thin and can be fused by rust.

I didn't have a press readily available, so I cut them out with a hacksaw. Labor intensive, but it did the job. I went with the polyurethane bushings (specifically Prothane 8-215). I prefer a more firm suspension, they were cheaper ($40) than what I was finding from Honda, and most importantly for me... you don't need a press to install them.

Have you had any issues with squeaking?

You will likely find 2-3 engine mounts torn. The front and rear handle the reaction from the engine torque and tend to tear, and the fluid filled mount on the driver's side is not very robust. I went with polyurethane inserts on the front and rear mounts and it adds a significant amount of NVH. It's enough to bother me and I typically have no problem with solid mounted V8s. Go with stock engine mounts if you have to replace.

Are you eliminating power steering while you are in there?

Thanks, I'll definitely take a look at the engine mounts.

I'll probably leave the power steering. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with the car. I may just flip it for some cash. If it were manual I'd keep it in a heartbeat... but its not. Yet, its a lot cleaner and its more efficient than the Sunfire... Decisions.