2006 Honda Insight MT Build Thread

[mpg_numbers_guy]

With all that snow I'd definitely get winter tires! Today was warmer, 40-ish, and the roads were fine. Wish Michigan would make up its mind lol. Although I'd prefer no snow for many reasons.

Have any of you had issues with wheels coming loose on Insights? I had that first incident where my front passenger wheel came loose, and today my driver's side wheel also became dangerously loose while driving, even after fully tightening all the lug nuts.

[Ecky]

Never had that, no. Maybe try a different set of lug nuts?

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Planning on sanding + cleaning the brakes Tuesday morning plus get the brake reduction clips mounted. Might as well try new lug nuts too. I think I remember reading somewhere that aluminum wheels sometimes have this issue in cold weather? The Civic never had any issue with either the OEM alloys or the HX rims, and I would think the lightness of the Insight wheels and rims would make them less susceptible to this due to the smaller amount of mass being rotated.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Brake reduction clips on! Also cleaned up and sanded the brakes and rotors, and greased the sliding pins. I'll see how it performs tonight during delivery runs.

On the other hand, drained the battery from 80% down to 20% while testing the brakes to make sure they worked properly after reinstalling everything. Driving into work today will be fun with all that forced regen.

NEED to get a clutch switch ASAP when the shift knob arrives! More important than regen switch and FAS..

[Ecky]

My brother had a later year Insight for a while until it was totaled in an accident. He had major issues with the battery always bottoming out until he tried moving all of his shift points up 500-1000rpm. Might be worth a try?

[mpg_numbers_guy]

With the speed limit at 55, I generally:

Personal driving:
1>2: 11 MPH
2>3: 24 MPH
3>4: 38 MPH
4>5: 45-50 MPH where I begin cruising
Shifting is generally 2100-2300 RPMs.

Pizza delivery:
1>2: 12 MPH
2>3: 25 MPH
3>4: 40 MPH
4>5: 55-59 MPH where I begin cruising
Shifting is generally 2200-2400 RPMs.

With lower speed limits I upshift sooner and go through all the gears while accelerating. I sometimes can start from a dead stop in 2nd; is this okay or bad for the transmission?

VTEC kicks in at 2800, right? I could try shifting at 2600-2700 RPMs and see how that does. A little better acceleration, but how much of a FE hit? I rarely get any forced regen while driving with longer stops or on the highway, but pizza delivery is pretty much 70% stop-n-go, and the car spends about 20%-30% of it's time in forced regen plus me being extra conscientious about regenning. I know it's not a new battery by any means, but it seems to work well and there aren't any battery codes, pending or not.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

I sometimes can start from a dead stop in 2nd; is this okay or bad for the transmission?

The transmission, no, but it's going to put more wear on your clutch. I typically don't stress clutch longevity to new manual drivers, but closer gear spacing and a very short first gear will contribute to long clutch life. It's basically a set of brake pads between engine and transmission, and (oversimplified) the greater the difference in speed between the two when you let the clutch out, the more material you're going to take off the clutch.

Mine is still original at ~245k and seems fine. I know some vehicles need a clutch before 100k. It won't last forever even if you baby it, but just something to keep in mind.

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

VTEC kicks in at 2800, right? I could try shifting at 2600-2700 RPMs and see how that does.

I understand it's somewhat load dependent but yes, ballpark 2800rpm. I'd give that a shot.

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

A little better acceleration, but how much of a FE hit? I rarely get any forced regen while driving with longer stops or on the highway, but pizza delivery is pretty much 70% stop-n-go, and the car spends about 20%-30% of it's time in forced regen plus me being extra conscientious about regenning. I know it's not a new battery by any means, but it seems to work well and there aren't any battery codes, pending or not.

FE hit, probably more than zero. How much I can't say, but I find shifting sooner helps FE.

Honestly I found that to be the biggest learning curve with the car. It's very possible to finely control battery usage with just the gas pedal but you can probably expect to still be learning that months or years down the line. Even with a fully functional IMA, you can drive in stop and go traffic and never get a bar of assist or regen (or more of one and less of the other) if you're really precise with the gas pedal.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Ecky

The transmission, no, but it's going to put more wear on your clutch. I typically don't stress clutch longevity to new manual drivers, but closer gear spacing and a very short first gear will contribute to long clutch life. It's basically a set of brake pads between engine and transmission, and (oversimplified) the greater the difference in speed between the two when you let the clutch out, the more material you're going to take off the clutch.

Mine is still original at ~245k and seems fine. I know some vehicles need a clutch before 100k. It won't last forever even if you baby it, but just something to keep in mind.

What kind of things will wear out a clutch faster? I feel I might be doing some of them, but I'm not exactly sure what.

Originally Posted by Ecky

I understand it's somewhat load dependent but yes, ballpark 2800rpm. I'd give that a shot.

FE hit, probably more than zero. How much I can't say, but I find shifting sooner helps FE.

Did it and got 66.5 MPG for pizza deliveries tonight:

1>2: 12 MPH
2>3: 28 MPH
3>4: 43 MPH
4>5: 55-59 MPH.

Most shifts between 2300 and 2700 RPMs.

From other test driving it seems that the brake reduction clips are worth 2-ish MPG. At speeds below 40 MPH I can tell a definite improvement in fuel economy, while at speeds above 45 MPH I can't tell at all. Guessing they work best in scenarios where rolling resistance is the key fuel consumption issue. Coasting seemed slightly better. So if we say 64.5 MPG (minus the rough 2 MPG from brake clips), that's within 0.2 MPG of my average fuel economy while delivering, so the shifting didn't seem to affect fuel economy much. Seems like my peak fuel economy range shifted a bit. Previously the best MPG was 35-50 MPH with 45-50 MPH being the highest, now it seems that it's still 35-50 MPH for peak FE, but 38-44 MPH for peak FE, with the brake reduction clips. Not that the higher speed MPG suffered, but that the lower speed MPG got better.

One of my caliper pins was also having trouble sliding, so we greased that as well; part of the "2-ish mpg" could be that.

The "2-ish mpg" is just butt dyno....no ABA testing. It was hard enough getting the clips installed once!

Originally Posted by Ecky

Honestly I found that to be the biggest learning curve with the car. It's very possible to finely control battery usage with just the gas pedal but you can probably expect to still be learning that months or years down the line. Even with a fully functional IMA, you can drive in stop and go traffic and never get a bar of assist or regen (or more of one and less of the other) if you're really precise with the gas pedal.

How? The only way I can accelerate without assist is downhill or feathering it lightly and literally crawling along. Preventing regen is easy by coasting in neutral or EOCing.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Installed the smaller driver's side mirror today! Will try to get pics posted.

Belly pan still hasn't arrived yet. Ordered it and received confirmation from Scott on December 17. Emailed him yesterday about it and he says he still "needs a few days". I leave for college on the 11th. Not too happy right now.

On the other hand, drove my mom's Prius for work one day..
You know you're an Insight owner when a Prius feels fast and like a tank compared to your car.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

How? The only way I can accelerate without assist is downhill or feathering it lightly and literally crawling along. Preventing regen is easy by coasting in neutral or EOCing.

Very possible your ECU has different parameters than mine, but where assist kicks in seems to vary based on SOC, some other unknown factors the ECU cares about, and *I think* throttle position - not necessarily load. Maybe load also. It's very possible, for instance, to hold the pedal down to just before 50mpg in 5th gear and cruise along with no assist. Any farther and it begins to assist. Trick is to find that threshold in every gear, and how much it varies based on RPM.

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

On the other hand, drove my mom's Prius for work one day..
You know you're an Insight owner when a Prius feels fast and like a tank compared to your car.

Not that you're doing any redline pulls but I want to say the Insight is actually a hair faster to 60mph based on Car and Driver's testing. Honda's official numbers show it a bit slower than real-world testing.