2006 Honda Insight MT Build Thread

[NoD~]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Bass response in the door speakers was pathetic until I mounted my speakers to the door frame and completely sealed it. Most bass was coming from the rear deck.

Of course, I have a sub now so I can compensate but the character of the system changed a lot.

Definitely. I'd have a hard time living without a sub as it is! There's a ton one can do to improve the front end on these cars, for sure. Definitely not saying a rear speaker is worthless, just that tweets on the dash add a lot to the front end that I prefer instead of the rear speakers.

On another note, I do really want to design and 3D print a pod for the corners on the dash/pillars that would house a tweet and a 3 or 4 inch midrange. This would MASSIVELY improve the sound and make it easy for anybody to replicate. It's the design part that's gonna be a challenge for me (curves on the dash, up to the window, and the pillar? I'm not that cool at Sketchup). It would take some serious door speaker upgrades to supply the mid to low end to really make this setup shine, however. And some MDF (or dense plastic) rings directly to the door is definitely the right way to do it!

[mpg_numbers_guy]

My guess is that a lot of the sound from the rear speakers is muted because they're mounted directly behind the rear seat, which I imagine reduces sound quality. I'm in the process of doing measurements and such to rebuild the rear of my car after deleting the IMA, and the plan is to build boxes for the speakers behind the seats, raise them up some, and angle them toward the front for better sound. I'm having to build around the fuel lines behind the passenger seat, so I might as well make that area a box for the speakers, and do the same on the driver's side. I'm not particularly an audiophile, so having the "perfect" sound isn't crucial to me, but I do appreciate a good sounding system and am okay with doing little things here and there to improve the Insight's subpar stock system. I don't want any kind of sound equipment that is overly heavy or that will impede on storage space, so at this point anything additional I may add is limited to beneath the driver's and passenger's seats. The high end on these new speakers is much better than the old speakers (I actually had to turn town the treble a bit). If anything I would add a small sub beneath one of the seats to improve the bass.

Ecky, is there a write up on your build thread on how you mounted your front speakers to the door frame and sealed them?

[Ecky]

Pretty sure it's in my massive Ecomodding and TLC thread.

[NoD~]

Ecky's is out there, I know I've seen it, but here are some others as well (dedicated audio threads, so quick and easy to find):
https://www.insightcentral.net/forum...adget-way.html

https://www.insightcentral.net/forum...ers-ideas.html

Basically, MDF, plastic, or even a solid Plywood would be fine for making the spacer rings (heavier/denser the better). Have to cut your door panel's plastic "cup" out. Mount the ring and speaker to the metal door skin and seal every hole the best you can (probably replace the plastic liner, if you still have it.). I like to use aluminum duct tape myself. Deadener if you can, that always helps. If you can manage to seal your door speaker to your plastic door panel as well, it should give further improvement (but that would take some work).

Edit: YES here's Ecky's in another thread! https://www.insightcentral.net/forum...ml#post1390457

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind when working on the sound system some more.

Just finished installing the new catalytic converter. CEL codes are all gone except for the hybrid battery one from the dirty bypass I have right now (switch off, BCM unplugged).

Here are the parts I ordered for reference:

• Davico Catalytic Converter 58214 {#18194}. Aftermarket catalytic converter that is a direct fit to the Insight and is used by several other Insight owners. Available through Amazon, Ebay, and elsewhere. RockAuto has the lowest price of the three at $208.79. Link here. This catalytic also comes with Honda part #18229-S3Y-J01, which is the exhaust flange gasket to connect the two catalytic converter pipes.
• Dorman Pipe to Converter Spring Kit 03416. Also available through Amazon, Ebay, and any Honda parts store. RockAuto had the cheapest price at $3.31 each. 2 are needed. Link here.
• Exhaust Manifold Gasket. Honda Part # 18115-PHM-004. This may or may not have been able to be reused, but I went with a new part since I was removing it anyway to install the new catalytic. Price was only $4.22 through the Honda dealership my dad works at. Prices online vary from $4-$10. HondaPartsNow.com and Amazon are two online places that come to mind. RockAuto is/was out of stock at the time of writing this.
• Exhaust Manifold Stay. Honda Part # 11941-PHM-000. This is a support bracket that bolts onto the catalytic piping and onto the transmission housing. I replaced mine because it was rusted out. Deleting the support braket will likely make your catalytic conveter break apart at the welds after a while. Price was around $13 through the Honda dealership my dad works at.
• Stainless steel nuts and washers. I did not remove the bolts that were embedded, but did replace any hardware with stainless steel. Available at most local hardware stores. Bring a nut with you to the store to compare sizes. The nut size on my OEM catalytic was 13mm socket, thread 8mm-1.25. Note that the spring kit comes with two bolts, both size 14mm. I spent $4.52 at the local Menards.
• 2000F-rated Rustoleum Primer & 2000F-rated Rustoleum Flat Black Paint. I bought mine through Home Depot. Most local stores will have this, although it may only be rated to 1200F. My 260K mile, 13 year old catalytic was working fine, but rusted out. To prevent this, I followed what Ecky did with his catalytics: rust-proofing them with heat and rust resistant paint. I did 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of paint, and then followed the instructions on the back of the can to cure it. The instructions are as follows:
  • Bake at 250F for 30 minutes.
  • Cool for 30 minutes.
  • Bake at 450F for 30 minutes.
  • Cool for 30 minutes.
  • Bake at 600F for 30 minutes.
  • Cool for 30 minutes.
  Only difference is that I went more like ~25 minutes each and 550F for the last step since the oven couldn't go higher than 550.

Installation was fairly simple; the only mildly challenging part was compressing the springs from underneath while threading on the nuts to connect the two catalytic converter pipes. O2 sensors were reused.

Including tax and shipping total cost was less than $300. Considering the price of a replacement OEM catalytic converter alone is over $1300 on HondaPartsNow.com, I consider myself blessed.

Getting the catalytic converter off was another story though, took about an hour, but that was last Sunday. Had to take a torch to the O2 sensors to loosen them up, and I spent Saturday spraying the bolts down with Pb blaster to loosen them up every hour, which helped.

The Insight is now back to sounding as quiet as--or maybe even quieter than--it was back when I bought the car.

Picture of the catalytic after baking:


Pictures after installation:





And yes, I did reinstall my underbody paneling after installing the catalytic. Also, a quick picture of the plug I used for the rear wiper (Amazon link here):

[California98Civic]

Great stuff as always. The only downside I can see to that obviously very necessary painting of the catalytic converter is how an acid wash would change the color of the paint. If you ever wanted to acid wash the converter in order to restore its functionality after getting a catalytic converter "inefficiency" code, the acid bath itself would stain the paint. You could repaint it if you wanted to, but I doubt that the staining of the paint would change its rust prevention capacity.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Good point on that. I didn't paint it for looks; there's streaks and uneven spots on the paint anyway, so if soaking it discolors it, then that's fine with me. Or it might serve as an excuse to add another layer of paint. Hopefully that won't be for a long time yet. Original catalytic lasted for 260,989 miles and 13 or 14 years. I just broke over 261k miles today - the highest mileage yet the most reliable vehicle I've been in that's over 10 years old!

Turns out that I'm missing just one part on the catalytic. Msjpiess pointed out to me on Insight Central that there is a support bracket that connects from the catalytic converter to the transmission housing to help support the catalytic. The one on my Insight was rusted out, and I wasn't aware of it's importance, so I just threw away what was left of it. Apparently it is a crucial part, and the welds on his catalytic broke without that support. So I ordered that part and it should be here next week. Part number is added to my previous post for complete reference.

Also something I learned today is that whenever a catalytic converter is replaced on an Insight (and probably most other cars as well), you should disconnect and reconnect the 12V battery to "reset" the ECU's settings with regards to air-fuel ratios and the like. My guess is that some things were adjusted to compensate for the exhaust leak that isn't there anymore. Drove it today, and lean burn worked well (in fact, between the warmer weather and no exhaust leak I was finally able to hold 150 MPG constant for over a mile for the first time ever on level ground without losing speed!), but the issue was that when the car went out of lean burn, it ran very rich. Driving that normally resulted in 75-80 MPG was 55-60 MPG. The car also felt as fast as it did with the IMA enabled...and it wasn't enabled. After I reset the 12V, I drove it around and the AFR and mileage returned to normal.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Had a couple of minutes yesterday so I painted the speaker grilles black:

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Warning: Image heavy.

-

Deleted the IMA battery today!

Finally had a full day to work on the Insight, so I spent it getting the IMA deleted from the car.

My IMA is healthy and throws no codes. The one time it threw a code was merely a ground strap issue that was swiftly fixed.

However, as a hypermiler, the IMA is just dead weight. As we know, energy is not wasted when we accelerate, but rather when we brake and turn that energy into brake dust. Hybrids attempt to counteract this inefficient driving by capturing that energy through regenerative braking, and then using that energy to provide faster or more fuel efficient acceleration.

The hybrid system is less efficient than a traditional gasoline motor, because the regenerative braking and charging process is very inefficient. Hybrids only return better fuel economy for inefficient drivers (unless you spend money on systems like MIMA to give you manual control over the battery).

With all that being said, a hypermiler can get the same fuel economy in an Insight without the hybrid battery. As proof, consider the fuel logs of any one of us who have disabled and/or deleted the IMA battery.

When a hypermiler can get the same fuel economy in a hybrid as in a non-hybrid (given that they are the same vehicle), then the hybrid battery merely becomes dead weight that slows acceleration and reduces fuel economy.

Thankfully, in Honda hybrids, the hybrid battery can be deleted without affecting the vehicle's functionality. According to Insight Central, the hybrid battery weights 69 lbs, and the computers and wiring add another 3lbs. 72lbs is a decent weight on a car that weighs less than 1900lbs stock. On top of the 32lbs of the passenger seat I also removed today.

Plus, the IMA battery takes up a lot of storage room. While the Insight's hatchback design helps, not having rear seats to fold down for storage does hamper it a bit. With the IMA deleted, storage space becomes abundant.

Anyway, long story short, that is why I'm deleting the hybrid battery: weight reduction and storage space. Not because my IMA battery is bad.

Now on to something that's hopefully a little more interesting than me just rambling.

I followed mudder's thread over on Insight Central titled "How to Completely Remove Your IMA Battery".

Arduino bypass was provided by Ecky, passed down after his K-swap.

Once the IMA battery is removed (there are tutorials out for this, or you can just follow the bolts and go by what you see, it isn't that complicated), the output high voltage leads from the IMA need to be connected directly to the DC-DC. Prior to this, they were connected to the IMA battery, and then leads from the IMA went to the DC-DC.

I opted to not cut into anything, so I used some modified spade connectors to connect to the existing plug:



Normal spade connectors are not wide enough to plug in, so I expanded them by tapping them down onto a flathead screwdriver. I later used pliers to flatten them to ensure a tight connection.

Here is a picture of a modified connector on the left, and an unmodified one on the right.



There is a fuse on the IMA battery that needs to be disconnected and reused here. If I have my facts straight it's a 250 VDC fuse rated for 30 or 40 amps. This fuse needs to be in place between your connections of the positive leads.

Here is a picture of the fuse connected to the positive output lead:



I used 10-gauge wire to connect the leads. All materials used are rated for 600 volts. Here is a picture of the completed setup:



More pictures showing the setup from different angles:





The arduino connected for testing purposes. It's a bit more secured now and will be even more so once I get the rear rebuilt.



After testing and verifying that the car started fine with no warning lights, I sealed up the connections with electrical tape and tried to add some semblance of organization there for now.



So now here is my current view from the back of the car. Next step is to relocate the DC-DC converter to the spare tire area and then start building up the sides and recarpeting the rear to reclaim all that newfound storage space.



More details on this mod can be found on mudder's thread over on Insight Central here. I skipped some of the details and focused more on the specifics of what I did since there is plenty of detail on it on the IC thread.

No CEL, No IMA light, No IMA battery! Why even did Honda weigh down this car with a hybrid battery anyway?

~ Happy ecomodding!

[NoD~]

Doesn't it feel good? Next, you gotta do the DC-DC to the meanwell. It's over 20 lbs saved after the conversion and makes charging work simply better!

Also, if you haven't seen it, I've put together a spreadsheet for my own Insight. Really need to re-work this sheet, but take a look here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing